3 days

[Old Timer]

Amongst other passages,

"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things." (Ephesians 4:9-10)

Yes, He now has ascended into heaven after first descending into the grave that He may fulfill all things. Nothing mystical or complicated about it.

So what you're saying is, this beautiful paradise of which Christ spoke is simply the grave? Wow. Some paradise.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)

NO! That is not what I'm saying! Paradise is the coming Kingdom. Christ words to the thief acknowledged what the thief had said that day. Because of

[Guest Jude 1:3]

Amongst other passages,

"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things." (Ephesians 4:9-10)

Yes, He now has ascended into heaven after first descending into the grave that He may fulfill all things. Nothing mystical or complicated about it.

So what you're saying is, this beautiful paradise of which Christ spoke is simply the grave? Wow. Some paradise.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)

NO! That is not what I'm saying! Paradise is the coming Kingdom. Christ words to the thief acknowledged what the thief had said that day. Because of

[billie]

I agree with you on this one, Jude.

[Guest Jude 1:3]

Moreover, Old Timer, to suggest Lazarus went into the future, when the Earth is restored, is also to say he was whisked back in time when Christ rose him from the dead. This would mean that when the Earth is restored, we'll see Lazarus, but he will suddenly disappear (because Christ is bringing him back). Do you believe that?

[Old Timer]

I disagree with your interpretation of the Bible. I think it is clear that Paradise exists in the grave, along with the Pit. I don't think the rich man would have been able to communicate with Abraham had it been on the restored Earth, for by then the lost will be unseen and forgotten, locked up for all eternity.

Perhaps I will take up Lazarus and the rich man in another post.

So Paradise exists in the grave? Wow, that is what Christ promised those that overcome. That is where Paul was taken and shown the future. That is where the Tree of Life is.

I guess I will have to go back and study my Bible and try to find Paradise in the grave.

[Floatingaxe]

Yes the NIV has it:

John 3:13...

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven

[Guest PowerinTruth]

My girlfriend said that when she was skimming through the bible, she read something about jesus going into hell for three days. She believes it was call abrahms land? Or something to that extent she cant remember where it was at, and thinks she might of read it wrong. But she said that he went to hell for the three days to have people aware that they were going to heaven. She said what she thought she read was like a barrier and these people that were waiting there could withstand the fire. Does anyone know about this? Or maybe she misinterpreted? Any help would be appreciated.

She may be referring to 1 Peter 3: 18-20. After Jesus was raised up he went to preach to the devil spirits in prison. We have to look at 2 Peter 2:4 also which is actually where we find that the devil spirits were in a place called Tartarus, translated "hell".

"Tartarus" is a unique usage as it is only used one time. Tartarus has it meaning in Greek mythology and is a prison for the god's. The word Tartarus was used here so people understood that these were spirit beings during that time.

Jesus did not go to "preach" to them, as in trying to save them. The word translated "preach" here is the specific Greek word "kerusso". When something important was about to happen, or just happened, the Roman trumpet used to signal this was called a Keruss. We have all seen the king coming and these guys standing there with 3 and 4 foot trumpets with the little flags hanging on them etc .. Jesus went to "Tartarus" and "trumpet blasted" to these spirits to inform them of his resurrection and that they sacrificed their freedom in vain.

In order to understand why they were there in the first place we have to get into another topic, but it deals with Genesis 6: 1-8. Where Sons of God (ben Elohim), took daughters of men, had children with them and produced a race of Nephilim (fallen ones). Ben Elohim is only used for spirit beings and this specifies that spirit beings took daughters of men and reproduced creating a fallen race. This was the reason for the flood as well, but I will hold off on getting into that in this post. 1 Peter 3:20 lets us know that these spirits were disobedient while God was waiting for the construction of Noah's Ark. They were guilty of genetically engineering so to speak, their own race which if allowed to continue would have made it impossible for the birth of our Messiah. Further study on this topic will show geneology that leads to the Canaanites, Goliath, King Og, etc.. Sheds some light on why the Israelites were so afraid of the Canaanites ( they were not normal human beings, very large men), and also why they were commanded to "completely destroy them" in certain lands, but not in others. There was an infestation so to speak of these Nephilim. The Bible also tells us that the Nephilim were here before and after the flood. I will leave you with some Scripture to follow up on this more if you like.

Genesis 1:11-12

(11) Then God said,

[Guest PowerinTruth]

Actually after posting I realize she was talking about a completely different part of Scripture , but there is some good information there that many are not aware of , so my apologies but I hope the information is enlightening.

[Guest PowerinTruth]

One thing we need to remember when reading the Bible is that it is perfect, without flaw, error, or contradiction. God is perfect, His Word is perfect. We need to research with this is mind knowing that the entire Bible has to line up in perfect harmony. We also realize that there are apparent contradictions due to understanding, translation, and transmission errors. The Bible was not written in the nice neat book form we have today. There were no chapters or verses, capitalization,or even punctuation. Nor were there spaces between the words. An example would be like this: JESUSANSWEREDHIMITELLYOUTHETRUTHTODAYYOUWILLBEWITHMEINPARADISE (of course it was in Greek as well)

Let's take a look at the verse as translated now

NIV Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Now let's move that comma over one word and read this verse again.

Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."

This is similar to a common idiom we use now in the English language. Take a look at this sentence, " I am telling you right now, you are going to school." We understand this idiom, and we know it does not mean they are going to school "right now". It is used for emphasis. This statement doesn't specify when they are going to school. Move the comma and we have a completely different meaning, "I am telling you, right now you are going to school."

Translating this verse "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise.", would be the proper translation. Now this verse lines up completely with the Word of God and there is less confusion.

E.W. Bullinger Writes :

[Appendix 173, from The Companion Bible]

The interpretation of this verse depends entirely on punctuation, which rests wholly on human authority, the Greek manuscripts having no punctuation of any kind till the ninth century, and then it is only a dot in the middle of the line) separating each word.

The Verb "to say," when followed by hoti, introduces the ipsissima verba of what is said; and answers to our quotation marks. So here (in Luke 23:43), in the absence of hoti (="that"), there may be a doubt as to the actual words included in the dependent clause. But the doubt is resolved (1) by the common Hebrew idiom, "I say unto thee this day," which is constantly used for very solemn emphasis; as well as (2) by the usage observable in other passages where the verb is connected with the Gr. semeron= to-day.

[Old Timer]

PowerInTruth, I realize I am giving ammunition to those that disagree with me as I write this post but as I have taken a position on this verse, Luke 23:43 in this thread, I will make a brief reply to your post.

I agree with your first paragraph. Especially,