What are the chances?

[George]

Interesting thread!

I wonder what the odds are of the Israel being a nation without a country for 2000 years and then being restored to their homeland in fulfillment of multiple prophecies in the OT!

[TheProcess]

Some food for thought...

What are the chances that one man could fulfill even eight of the prophecies of the Messiah?

In 1969, a mathematician named Peter W. Stoner gave his students eight prophecies that were fullfilled by Christ and asked the students to figure the probability of their all being fullfilled. The prophecies he chose stated that the Messiah would...

1. Be born in Bethlehem (Prophecy: Micah 5:2 - Fullfilled: Matthew 2:1-6; Luke 2:4-7)
   
2. Be preceded by a messenger (Prophecy: Isaiah 40:3-5; Malachi 3:1 - Fullfilled: Matthew 3:1; Mark 1:1-3; Luke 3:1-6)
   
3. Ride on a donkey (Prophecy: Zechariah 9:9 - Fullfilled: Matthew 21:6-11; Luke 19:28; John 12:12-15)
   
4. Be betrayed by a friend (Prophecy: Psalm 41:9; 55:12-14 - Fullfilled: Matthew 26:20-25, 47-50; Luke 22:3-6; John 13:18-30)
   
5. Be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver (Prophecy: Zechariah 11:12-13 - Fullfilled: Matthew 26:14-16; 27:3-10)
   
6. Be betrayed for money used to purchase the potter's field (Prophecy: Zechariah 11:12-13 - Fullfilled: Matthew 26:14-16; 27:3-10)
   
7. Be silent as a lamb (Prophecy: Isaiah 53:7 - Fullfilled: Matthew 27:12-14; Mark 15:3-5)
   
8. Have his hands and feet pierced (Prophecy: Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10 - Fullfilled: Luke 24:39; John 19:18, 34-37; 20:20-28)
   

The class came up with a whopping number: the combined probability of one person's fullfilling eight of the Old Testament prophesies would be one chance in 1E+17. (Yes, that's a one followed by seventeen zeros.) And since the initial finding by Stoner's students, his grandson Don has updated the number to 1E+18, since the world's population is now larger.

See http://www.geocities.com/stonerdon/science_speaks.html

Inside the Mysteries of the Bible

The American Bible Society

Copyright 2006

There are (at least) 17 prophecies documenting the coming Messiah. There are 17 fullfillments of prophecy documented that show Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah. There are other prophecies related to events pertaining to the crucifixion that have also been fullfilled.

Find the article by Farrell Till addressing this kind of argument. I would post it for you, but it would probably be removed by a mod.

[EricH]

Interesting thread!

I wonder what the odds are of the Israel being a nation without a country for 2000 years and then being restored to their homeland in fulfillment of multiple prophecies in the OT!

Probably about the same as the Cubs ever winning the series

[Rebmilc]

Interesting thread!

I wonder what the odds are of the Israel being a nation without a country for 2000 years and then being restored to their homeland in fulfillment of multiple prophecies in the OT!

Hi George This link from Grant Jeffries may help you with that question.

My Webpage

It certainly makes you think.

[undone]

Interesting thread!

I wonder what the odds are of the Israel being a nation without a country for 2000 years and then being restored to their homeland in fulfillment of multiple prophecies in the OT!

Hi George This link from Grant Jeffries may help you with that question.

My Webpage

It certainly makes you think.

Great page Rebmilc. I love Grant Jeffery. He now has a weekly TV show that air's on TBN Wednesday night/Thursday morning at 12:00 AM CST (I think). I saw it last night. His topic last night was The New Heaven and The New Earth. Interesting stuff.

[SoulGrind]

Interesting thread!

I wonder what the odds are of the Israel being a nation without a country for 2000 years and then being restored to their homeland in fulfillment of multiple prophecies in the OT!

Hi George This link from Grant Jeffries may help you with that question.

My Webpage

It certainly makes you think.

WOW! I knew some of this stuff - but not all of it! Absolutely amazing. Will be very interesting to see the prophecy of the Christian Bible unfold before our eyes.

And yet, the Bible even prophesied that there will be those who still don't believe, even when the signs are given. How sad. How sad indeed!

[Joshua-777]

Now if thats the odds of 8 prophecys, whats the odds of one man fufiling all these prophecies? I have heard from a few different sources there was actualy 365 prophecies Christ fufilled. But heres a list of 68 fulfilled.

1.His pre-existence Mic 5:2 John 1:1; John 1:14

2.God would provide Himself a Lamb as an offering Genesis 22:8 John 1:29

3.The sacrificial lamb Isaiah 53:5 John 1:29

4.Heir to the throne of David Isaiah 9:6-7 Matthew 1:1

5.From the tribe of Judah Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:1

6.Of the seed of Abraham Genesis 12:3 Matthew 1:1-16

7.Born of the seed of a woman Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:18

8.Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18

9.His name called Immanuel, "God with us" Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23

10.Called "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" Isaiah 9:6 Matthew 1:23

11.Born in Bethlehem Mic 5:2 Matthew 2:1

12.Presented with gifts Psalm 72:10 Matthew 2:1; Matthew 2:11

13.Slaughter of the children Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew 2:18

14.Called out of Egypt Template:Hosea Matthew 2:15

15.Would be a Nazarene Judges 13:5; Amos 2:11; Lam 4:7 Matthew 2:23

16.Would be a Prophet of the children of Israel Deuteronomy 18:15 Matthew 2:15

17.Priest after the order of Melchizedek Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6; Heb 6:30; Hebrews 7:15-17

18.Preceded by a messenger to prepare his way Malachi 3:1 Matthew 11:7-11

19.His messenger before Him in spirit of Elijah Malachi 4:5-6 Luke 1:17

20.Messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:3

21.Declared to be the Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17

22.All nations blessed by Abraham's seed Genesis 12:3 Matthew 8:5; Matthew 8:10

23.No bones broken Numbers 9:12; Psalm 34:2 John 19:33-36

24.Gentiles flock to Him 2 Samuel 22:44-45; Psalms 2:7-8; Isaiah 55:5; Isaiah 60:3; Isaiah 65:1; Malachi 1:11 Matthew 8:10

25.LORD said unto Him, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" Psalm 110:1 Matthew 22:44; Mark 12:36; Mark 16:19

26.Soldiers gambled for his garment Psalm 22:18 Matthew 27:35

27.People sat there looking at Him Psalm 22:17 Matthew 27:36

28.Hated without a cause Psalm 35:19 Matthew 27:23;

29.He is the stone which the builders rejected which became the headstone Psalms 118:22-23; Isaiah 28:16 Matthew 21:42; 1Pet 2:7

30.People would hear not and see not Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:14-15

31.A stone of stumbling to Israel Isaiah 8:14-15 1Pet 2:8

32.Brought light to Zebulon & Naphtali, Galilee of the Gentiles Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:15

33.People give God lip service Isaiah 29:13 Matthew 15:8

34.People trust in traditions of men Isaiah 29:13 Matthew 15:9

35.Heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb Isaiah 29:18; Isaiah 35:5-6 Matthew 11:5

36.God delights in Him Isaiah 42:1 Matthew 3:17; Matthew 17:5

37.Would not strive or cry Isaiah 42:2-3 Mark 7:36

38.Given for a covenant Isaiah 42:6; Jeremiah 31:31-34 Romans 11:27; Gal 3:17; Gal 4:24; Hebrews 8:6-10; Heb 10:16; Heb 10:29; Heb 12:24; Heb 13:20

39.Rejected by His own Isaiah 53:3 Matthew 21:42; Mark 8:31; Mark 12:10; Luke 9:22; Luke 17:25

40.He bore our sickness Isaiah 53:4 Matthew 8:16-17

41.Wounded for our sins Isaiah 53:5 John 6:51

42.He bore the sins of many Isaiah 53:10-12 Mark 10:45

43.Preached to the poor/brokenhearted/captives Isaiah 61:1 Matthew 11:5

44.Messiah not killed for Himself Template:Daniel Matthew 20:28

45.Smitten on the cheek Mic 5:1 Matthew 27:30

46.Came to bring a sword, not peace Mic 7:6 Matthew 10:34-35

47.He entered Jerusalem as a king riding on an ass Zech 9:9 Matthew 21:5

48.Sold for 30 pieces of silver Zech 11:12 Matthew 26:15; Luke 22:5

49.The 30 pieces of silver given for the potter's field Zech 11:13 Matthew 27:9-10

50.The 30 pieces of silver thrown in the temple Zech 11:13 Matthew 27:5

51.Forsaken by his disciples Zech 13:7 Matthew 26:56

52.Betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9 John 13:21

53.Accused by false witnesses Psalm 35:11 Matthew 26:60

54.Silent to accusations Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:14

55.Spat upon, smitten and scourged Isaiah 50:6; Isaiah 53:5 Matthew 27:26; Matthew 27:30

56.Thirsty during execution Psalm 22:16 John 19:28

57.Given vinegar and gall for thirst Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34

58.Crucified with criminals Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:35

59.Side pierced Zech 12:10 John 19:34

60.His body was pierced Psalm 22:16; Zech 12:10 John 20:25-27

61.He trusted in God, let Him deliver him! Psalms 22:7-8 Matthew 27:43

62.My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me? Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46

63.Darkness over the land Amos 8:9 Matthew 27:45

64.Buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57; Matthew 27:60

65.Resurrected from the dead Psalms 16:10-11; Psalm 49:15 Mark 16:6

66.Ascended to right hand of God Psalm 68:18 Luke 24:51

67.His coming glory Malachi 3:2-3 Luke 3:17

68.He will be killed Deuteronomy 13:6 Mark 15:24

[TheProcess]

Find the article by Farrell Till addressing this kind of argument. I would post it for you, but it would probably be removed by a mod.

SoulGrind, please address the argument Till gives. I am sure you can find the article very easily.

[SoulGrind]

Find the article by Farrell Till addressing this kind of argument. I would post it for you, but it would probably be removed by a mod.

SoulGrind, please address the argument Till gives. I am sure you can find the article very easily.

Oh - I found him - he too takes scripture out of context, goes on and on with personal opinion, cites very few references, none of which are seemingly very credable (scholars? No. Scientists? No Archaeologists? No, the list goes on).

That, in my opinion - is lip service, nothing more.

NEXT!

[TheProcess]

Oh - I found him - he too takes scripture out of context, goes on and on with personal opinion, cites very few references, none of which are seemingly very credable (scholars? No. Scientists? No Archaeologists? No, the list goes on).

That, in my opinion - is lip service, nothing more.

NEXT!

Which article did you find? (So I know you have the correct one)

Please respond to the argument he gives, rather than going on about a lack of references.