US will have to fight dirty in new wars

[Sweet Servent]

i'm still waiting for the evidence to back up the sweeping statements you've made sweet servant. no offense intended, but as long as you're posting in this thread, i'm going to keep demanding that you support your opinions with factual evidence... it's important to do that, because when you make claims such as 1) the US having supposedly admitted to using torture, and 2) that guns purchased from wallyworld are directly linked to the crime rate, and then hem and haw and try to change the subject rather than respond when challenged, it makes everything else you post lack credibility.

so for your own sake, please cite your evidence... or acknowledge that they were opinions rather than fact.

1) the US having supposedly admitted to using torture

AFX News Limited

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN

06.24.2005, 11:37 AM

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity.

'They are no longer trying to duck this and have respected their obligation to inform the UN,' the Committee member said.

'They they will have to explain themselves (to the Committee). Nothing should be kept in the dark,' he said.

UN sources said this is the first time the world body has received such a frank statement on torture from US authorities.

The Committee, which monitors respect for the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, is gathering information from the US ahead of hearings in May 2006.

Signatories of the convention are expected to submit to scrutiny of their implementation of the 1984 convention and to provide information to the Committee.

The document from Washington will not be formally made public until the hearings.

newsdesk@afxnews.com

2) that guns purchased from wallyworld are directly linked to the crime rate, and then hem and haw and try to change the subject rather than respond when challenged, it makes everything else you post lack credibility.

RECENT FIREARMS RESEARCH

Harvard Injury Control Research Center 2001-2006

Firearms Research Archive 1990-1998

Firearms Research Archive 1998-2003

Firearms Research Archive 2004-2005

The Firearm Research Center:

David Hemenway, Matthew Miller, Deborah Azrael, Beth Molnar, and Lisa Hepburn

Funded by the Joyce Foundation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(unpublished material is not to be cited w/o approval of authors)

BOOK: Hemenway, David. "Private Guns and Public Health" Ann Arbor, MI: University of Michigan Press, 2004. This book summarizes the literature on the relationship between guns and injuries and describes the public health approach to reducing firearm-related violence. More information at the University of Michigan Press website: http://www.press.umich.edu/titleDetailDesc.do?id=17530

ARTICLES:

I GUNS AND DEATH

A: HOMICIDE

1. Guns and homicide (literature review).

We performed a review of the academic literature on the effects of gun availability on homicide rates.

Major Findings: A broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Publication: Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. "Firearm Availability and Homicide: A Review of the Literature." Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.

2. Gun availability and state homicide rates, 1988-1997

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period.

Major findings: After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Publication: Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. "Household Firearm Ownership Levels and Homicide Rates across U.S. Regions and States, 1988-1997." American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.

3. Gun availability and state homicide rates, 2001-2003

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003.

Major Findings: States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

Submission: Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David.

[Openly Curious]

i'm still waiting for the evidence to back up the sweeping statements you've made sweet servant. no offense intended, but as long as you're posting in this thread, i'm going to keep demanding that you support your opinions with factual evidence... it's important to do that, because when you make claims such as 1) the US having supposedly admitted to using torture, and 2) that guns purchased from wallyworld are directly linked to the crime rate, and then hem and haw and try to change the subject rather than respond when challenged, it makes everything else you post lack credibility.

so for your own sake, please cite your evidence... or acknowledge that they were opinions rather than fact.

1) the US having supposedly admitted to using torture

AFX News Limited

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN

06.24.2005, 11:37 AM

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity.

'They are no longer trying to duck this and have respected their obligation to inform the UN,' the Committee member said.

'They they will have to explain themselves (to the Committee). Nothing should be kept in the dark,' he said.

UN sources said this is the first time the world body has received such a frank statement on torture from US authorities.

The Committee, which monitors respect for the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, is gathering information from the US ahead of hearings in May 2006.

Signatories of the convention are expected to submit to scrutiny of their implementation of the 1984 convention and to provide information to the Committee.

The document from Washington will not be formally made public until the hearings.

newsdesk@afxnews.com

2) that guns purchased from wallyworld are directly linked to the crime rate, and then hem and haw and try to change the subject rather than respond when challenged, it makes everything else you post lack credibility.

RECENT FIREARMS RESEARCH

Harvard Injury Control Research Center 2001-2006

Firearms Research Archive 1990-1998

Firearms Research Archive 1998-2003

Firearms Research Archive 2004-2005

The Firearm Research Center:

David Hemenway, Matthew Miller, Deborah Azrael, Beth Molnar, and Lisa Hepburn

Funded by the Joyce Foundation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(unpublished material is not to be cited w/o approval of authors)

BOOK: Hemenway, David. "Private Guns and Public Health" Ann Arbor, MI: University of Michigan Press, 2004. This book summarizes the literature on the relationship between guns and injuries and describes the public health approach to reducing firearm-related violence. More information at the University of Michigan Press website: http://www.press.umich.edu/titleDetailDesc.do?id=17530

ARTICLES:

I GUNS AND DEATH

A: HOMICIDE

1. Guns and homicide (literature review).

We performed a review of the academic literature on the effects of gun availability on homicide rates.

Major Findings: A broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Publication: Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. "Firearm Availability and Homicide: A Review of the Literature." Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.

2. Gun availability and state homicide rates, 1988-1997

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period.

Major findings: After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Publication: Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. "Household Firearm Ownership Levels and Homicide Rates across U.S. Regions and States, 1988-1997." American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.

3. Gun availability and state homicide rates, 2001-2003

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003.

Major Findings: States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

Submission: Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David.

[Guest LadyC]

your ARTICLES do not answer my request. here let me spell it out for you.

show me a source (a link will do) to where the U.S. ADMITTED TO TORTURE. that was your accusation. then you elaborated on that saying that the torture included pulling out fingernails and such.

and then show me a source that cites that legally obtained guns from WALMART are responsible in any way shape or form for the crime rate.

until you respond to those, i'm not interested in any articles you throw out here to try to confuse, confound, or distract from the issue.

for the sake of your OWN credibility, please show evidence to back up the claims you made.

[Guest LadyC]

a note to butero and other posters:

please do me a humongous favor and don't quote sweet servant's articles in your responses! my fingers are getting tired of scrolling!

[Sweet Servent]

I accept your apologize.

__________________________________________

Royal Member

Group: Royal Member

Posts: 3812

Member No.: 9949

Joined: 26-August 04

Hello Sweet Servant,

First of all, welcome to Worthy. Second, I hope I did not offend you in anything I said. I am pretty straight forward in the things I say, but meant nothing personal against you. I have been engaged in debates with others over the same type of things you spoke of, and may have unfairly lumped you in with them. I don't know you or your politics, so if I have made you out as something you are not, I apologize.

God bless,

Butero

--------------------

Jeremiah 6:16 "Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls."

Ecclesiates 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."

1 John 3:7,8 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doth righteousness, is righteous, even as he is righteous." He that committeth sin, is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

http://www.wjwradio.com

First of all, I am glad you were not offended by my remarks. My concern was that I had mistakenly labeled you a liberal, lumping you in with others I had been debating, but after continuing to debate you, it appears there was no need for an apology, because you are indeed liberal.

As far as your latest post goes, it is not a matter of you posting propoganda. Just look at who the story is saying is making claims we tortured prisoners. It is saying Amnesty International accused us of torturing prisoners. That is a left-wing group that has no credibility at all. Since the whole article is only about their accusations, that hardly constitutes proof.

I'm not a liberal, I am Christian. I am a person who believes that Christ love is the key, but you just lost my respect with Amnesty International crack. By the way did J. Edgar Hoover even admit to all the evil junk he did as FBI director? No, but I guess all the stuff that came out was just propoganda. He never did anything wrong.... The US goverment has never been wrong or lied ever, right? (the point is people doing wrong never admit that they have done wrong until they get caught but you are saying that it's all propoganda)

It's interesting though because if someone disagrees with you the person is a liberal fringe lunitic and spreading propoganda. I never did that to you. I have posted the articles if you choose to believe what you believe even after reading the articles it's your right as an America. And it's my right to disagree. It's clear that some of you believe this is a holy war, I don't believe that.

In Christ,

Kate

[Guest LadyC]

THERE! you just did it again, for the second (or third) time in this thread. i almost edited my last post to ask you to also show proof of where butero or anyone else ever referred to you as a fringe lunatic, but i decided to let that one slide.

but now that you've made that accusation again, show proof where he ever said that, please.

and then i'll show you the actual text of the posts in which he did no such thing, but you made the sarcastic remark that you must be a fringe lunatic and then attributed it to him.

[Sweet Servent]

your ARTICLES do not answer my request. here let me spell it out for you.

show me a source (a link will do) to where the U.S. ADMITTED TO TORTURE. that was your accusation. then you elaborated on that saying that the torture included pulling out fingernails and such.

and then show me a source that cites that legally obtained guns from WALMART are responsible in any way shape or form for the crime rate.

until you respond to those, i'm not interested in any articles you throw out here to try to confuse, confound, or distract from the issue.

for the sake of your OWN credibility, please show evidence to back up the claims you made.

__________________________________________________________________________

Here is this what you wanted?

The plaintiffs sued Wal-Mart for negligently selling a shotgun to James Michael White -- Ms. White's estranged husband -- who was under a domestic violence restraining order and was therefore prohibited from buying a firearm under federal law. On April 8, 1998, within two weeks of buying the shotgun, Mr. White used it to murder his estranged wife and her brother. Wal-Mart sold Mr. White the gun despite the fact that he filled out the federal purchase form truthfully, indicating that he was "subject to a court order restraining [him] from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner." As a result, federal law prohibited Mr. White from buying the gun. Nonetheless, after a Wal-Mart clerk and supervisor reviewed and signed the form, Mr. White was sold the murder weapon. Because of similar oversights, Wal-Mart has been sued repeatedly for negligent firearm sales, failure to properly train its gun sales staff, and negligent supervision.

[Marnie]

It's giving me a headache!

[Sweet Servent]

Sweet Servant, your lunatic philosophy cost over 100,000,000 lives in the last century alone. Are you prepared to assert that it is compatible with the 'good news'?

You have bought into the big lies of the Marxist, America-hating press. I assure you this IS demonic influence. You need to repent and ask God to free your mind from every vestige of Dialectical Materialism, and you will then be free of being led astray by the enimies of righteousness.

Right here I was called a lunatic...

[Guest LadyC]

well thank you servant, that's a start. however it's one incident. a tragic one, yes. but you made a blanket accusation about guns purchased at walmart being responsible for such a high crime rate. and you can only cite one example?

show me evidence that walmart guns attribute ANY signicant amount to the number of violent crimes committed. can you do that?