"All Religions Degrade Women"

[secondeve]

Well your title is not what the article stated. please try to be a little fair.

At the end of the article: "The divinely sanctioned world view authenticated by the selective use of scripture

[TheProcess]

Now. The point was not that all Christian women are subjugated, nor what the Bible says in other parts about equality. The idea being put forward was essentially that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones - not because all Christians or all Churches degrade women, but because the potential for such a misreading or intrepretation exists, and is used as the reason by many churches for why women cannot be ordained.

Are we certain that this is "misinterpretation"? Perhaps the Bible doesn't actually support an "equal" role for women?

[Guest LadyC]

I wouldn't call being cherished, protected, honored, or sacrificed for being degraded.

a big amen to that. i'd like to add, that WITHOUT Jesus, i (and most women i know) felt unprotected, dishonored, and treated like we had "USDA Prime" stamped on our thighs by the world in general. i'm so grateful to have found my worth in Christ, and to know just how highly He valued my life by sacrificing His life for mine.

[secondeve]

Now. The point was not that all Christian women are subjugated, nor what the Bible says in other parts about equality. The idea being put forward was essentially that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones - not because all Christians or all Churches degrade women, but because the potential for such a misreading or intrepretation exists, and is used as the reason by many churches for why women cannot be ordained.

Are we certain that this is "misinterpretation"? Perhaps the Bible doesn't actually support an "equal" role for women?

It does, in certain books like Galateans and in the actions of Jesus. This isn't the only interpretation, however; Paul in Corinthians and Timothy both have different things to say on the subject. The Old Testament throws up many more examples, but while these can be sited on the one hand as a reason for women being lesser, they can also be discarded on the ground that they applied only to the Jews, and in any case were replaced by the New Testament. On the other hand, seeing as Paul and Timothy seem a little sympathetic to that kind of OT thing, arguably such remarks, like the ten commandments, are still applicable and relevant. I don't think that any set rule applies to what parts of the OT were intended only for the Jews, which are irrelevant, which are significant but not practiced and which are still applicable. Until then, I'm going to use the phrase 'misinterpretation' because most modern Christian women don't live in the Dark Ages. Aruments about their role in the world and household are different matters; the relevance of those can, I think, be fairly contested, but this doesn't imply by default that the roles themselves are universally unfair, unwanted, difficult or degrading, or that the women themselves are mistreated - simply that should they want to, they are capable of doing other things. So, I'd say yes - we are certain the term is applicable.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

No higher honor could be bestowed upon a woman than to be the bearer of the Messiah.

Peace,

Dave

[TheProcess]

It does, in certain books like Galateans and in the actions of Jesus.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28 RSV)

I would say that this points to an ultimate spiritual equality of everyone, if you get what I am saying, but this doesn't necessarily mean that women should have an "equal" role in the Christian Church.

What do you mean by the "actions" of Jesus? Perhaps Jesus could have done more by including some women as his disciples?

[TheProcess]

No higher honor could be bestowed upon a woman than to be the bearer of the Messiah.

Well the "honour" couldn't really have been bestowed on a man...

Could some of the disciples not have been women? Could St. Paul not have been a woman? (So to speak)

[ayin jade]

Who did Jesus first show Himself to after the resurrection.

Why, I believe that was women! Surely if women were so degraded, He wouldnt have revealed His resurrection to them first, or gave them the all important message that He is risen.

Matthew 28

1 But late in the week, at the dawning into the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

2 And behold, a great earthquake occurred! For coming down from Heaven, and coming up, an angel of the Lord rolled back the stone from the door and was sitting on it.

3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow.

4 And the keepers shook for fear of him and became like dead men .

5 And the angel answered and said to the women, Do not fear, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.

6 He is not here, for He has risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

7 And go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead. And, behold, He goes before you into Galilee. There you shall see Him. Lo, I have told you.

8 And they quickly departed from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.

9 But as they were going to report to His disciples, behold, Jesus also met them, saying, Hail! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.

10 Then Jesus said to them, Do not be afraid; go tell My brothers that they should go into Galilee, and there they will see Me.

[TheProcess]

Who did Jesus first show Himself to after the resurrection.

Why, I believe that was women! Surely if women were so degraded, He wouldnt have revealed His resurrection to them first, or gave them the all important message that He is risen.

Matthew 28

1 But late in the week, at the dawning into the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

2 And behold, a great earthquake occurred! For coming down from Heaven, and coming up, an angel of the Lord rolled back the stone from the door and was sitting on it.

3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow.

4 And the keepers shook for fear of him and became like dead men .

5 And the angel answered and said to the women, Do not fear, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.

6 He is not here, for He has risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

7 And go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead. And, behold, He goes before you into Galilee. There you shall see Him. Lo, I have told you.

8 And they quickly departed from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.

9 But as they were going to report to His disciples, behold, Jesus also met them, saying, Hail! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.

10 Then Jesus said to them, Do not be afraid; go tell My brothers that they should go into Galilee, and there they will see Me.

However important the message, they are being treated as messengers -- "Go tell my disciples about this". So the women aren't in a high position.

[Observer of dreams]

The angels too are messengers