A Roman Miracle

[Guest charlie]

I didn't read all the posts. I got tired of the Catholic bashing after the first couple of pages. I did want to tell you a true story that concerns the divorce issue.

I used to attend a Baptist church and there was a really, sweet, middle aged mother of two there. She and her husband had been married probably around 20 years. Anyway, I got to know her pretty well and she had a good knowledge of the Bible and prayed a lot and it seemed that she often got answers to a lot of her questions thru praying. Like most people though she had her troubles. It seems that she'd been briefly married at a young age and the marriage only lasted a few years producing no children. Anyway, our pastor did a long Bible lesson one night on marriage and ran thru all the verses on marriage. Of course that meant reading the ones that say any one who remarries is an adultress and that anyone who marries such a woman is an adulterer. He ended up the lesson by saying even if a husband beats his wife that woman cannot divorce that man but may live apart from him. Like all of his Bible lessons he did all the talking which in his case was often shouting. Although he didn't come right out and say it the implication was loud and clear, she'd have to divorce her current husband of nearly 20 years and split up their family, to make things right. Well, she of course quit coming to church and of course some of the ladies talked to her and tried to make things okay so she'd come back. Everyone liked her and she was one of the few people that put ten percent of her income in the collection plate. She never came back and I know for a fact that every time she tried to pray after that she couldn't and finally gave up praying or reading the Bible for about two years. (The pastor also pointed out that God doesn't hear the prayers of someone living in sin.) She eventually wandered to the Church of Christ where those morons told her the same thing our Baptist preacher told her but added that she'd have to track down her ex-husband and remarry him if he wasn't already remarried to someone else. If he was remarried and refused to leave his current wife she'd have to remain unmarried and be available in case he ever did get divorced. That's what the Bible says right? She refused and was told she must not love God enough and what a shame that was. She was very upset for a long time but told me after crying about it off and on for several days she just accepted her fate (hell) and had put the Bible away and was just going to try and enjoy this life while it lasted. So, mr and mrs irish don't go to the Baptist or Church of Christ. In those denominations murder is looked at more favorably.

[Tyler]

What does the Bible say on this issue Charlie??

Only Christ Saves

[Matthitjah]

Hello Saints,

That last post was to all.

You Catholics are welcome here as Nicholas well knows from my private messages to him.

Nicholas I have called you brother.

I extend to you Christ and He crucified. This is all I know.

Defend your religion if you like. I am only here to make sure we present our Saviour in the light in which He deserves. That will not be accomplished by saying," bring it on!" Or "Your a liar!" Etc... Adnauseam!!!

Book burner?????

Let me tell you why we are here. FELLOWSHIP! Fellowship requires Charity.

Joh

[Guest charlie]

"""What does the Bible say on this issue Charlie??

Only Christ Saves""""

The preacher and elders said Christ wouldn't save her unless she divorced her current husband, broke up their family, and tracked down her ex and attempted a reconciliation with him. They said this IS what the Bible says on this issue.

My question to you is: Do YOU agree with this? Is this what Jesus wants?

[mobile21]

Tyler:

Catholics don't worship Mary??? ROFL!!! Who are you guys trying to kid????

The true and only catholic teaching goes like these:

You can ONLY worship God because He is the Creator of all things.

The Virgin Mary is ALSO a part of that creation so, again, "worshiping Mary" would be worshiping the creation and not the Creator, which is forbidden in the Catholic Church.

So, unless you have a document that sustains the assertion that the Catholic Church has change its teachings, you are wrong and I'm right as it should be because obviously a catholic should know more about the Catholic Church than a protestant.

You guys never heard of Fatima, or of any of the other "Marian Apparitional" sites around the world?? Who are the millions of peoples who go there to worship her???

The Virgin Mary in Fatima said the world needed an urgent conversion to Christ or that the error of Russia (atheism/materialism) would spread. Clearly materialism has invaded the western world by now (see how the 10 Commandments are no longer tolerated in a "visible place").

Those pilgrims go there to remind Mary's message and to obey it by converting to Christ.

The final thing that proves you wrong, is the prayer revealed in Fatima:

"O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fire of hell, take all souls to heaven, and help especially those most in need of your mercy."

Oh! looks like the prayer talks about Jesus doesn't it?.

Who is being proclaimed Co-Redemptrix by the RCC??

Although the Coredemptrix proposal has not yet been approved (and according to Vatican sources it's not being considered), there would be no problem with it because the prefix "co" in latin means "with" and not "equal" as suggested by some detractors of the proposal.

The biggest hurdle to approve it as a dogma according to some would be the ecumenical effort but according to the protestant theologians who participated in the Theological Commission of the Pontifical International Marian Academy that would be a non-issue because the proposal revolves around the good ol' intercession issue so it's not a bigger issue than the "catholic saints" one.

Basically, it's the very same issue.

Who is telling people that thru devotion to Mary, SALVATION is PROMISED???

Who? Christ is.

Only Christ can save so He can promise salvation to whoever He wants to.

You said it yourself, the word is "devotion" and that particular devotion is not a requirement, rather it's a gift.

You can choose to use the gift or you can ignore it, after all, it's already yours.

[mobile21]

And read mobile's signature.

"...will not taste death, but find refuge in My Immaculate Heart.."

"Revelation of the Blessed Mother to Maureen Sweeney"

So, Mobile, you don't believe Mary saves?  Then why do you cling to such a false prophecy or vision.  It's not pointing to God...but to Mary.

You never tested the spirits.

I will pray you lose your blindness to this.

You know Bill, in the Old Testament the Queen Mother brought the petitioned needs of the people of Israel to the throne of her son the king like for example in 1 Kings 2:13-19.

Mary's intercession is exactly a reflection of this tradition, Christ is the King and only He can save us, He is the sole source of salvation, but His mother can present our petitions to Him and that way, He may help us in a special manner, just like the King used to have special attention for the petition his mother presented to him.

[Guest charlie]

Mobile, when I was growing up in the south many decades ago I can remember preacher preaching that Catholics worshipped Mary. I don't know how any of them would have known this since none of them had ever stepped foot in a Catholic church, there weren't even any Catholic churches around and there weren't any Catholics in our town. But, nevertheless, we were taught that Catholics didn't worship Jesus and that they were all going to hell. The only contact we had with Catholics or the Catholic religion was what was portrayed on T.V. As a teenager I remember asking my mother why Catholic were always making the sign of the cross, covered their head like the Bible said to do (women), wore crusifixes all the time, believed people could be possessed and actually did exorcisms, and why did the encylopedia at the school library say that the Catholic church was the largest branch of Christianity on earth. I don't recall her having an answer, and getting downright annoyed when I pressed her for an answer. I was still too scared to investigate it too much. Not wanting to go to hell and all.

Anyway, I've only been at this forum for a few days and I can see all ready that many others here have been taught or should I just say the obvious, brainwashed, the way I was. You're wasting your breath with most. I don't know if I'll hang around here for long or not. And I'm not even Catholic. But, I did recently start saying the rosary (internet instructions), something I never thought I'd ever do. Who says an old dog can't learn new and wonderful things.

[Guest shiloh357]

You know Bill, in the Old Testament the Queen Mother brought the petitioned needs of the people of Israel to the throne of her son the king like for example in 1 Kings 2:13-19.


Mary's intercession is exactly a reflection of this tradition,

There is no "tradition" regarding the passage in 1 Kings 2:13-19. The Bible NOWHERE sets this up as a "tradition" to be followed. It is a narrative passage and that is all. There is no doctrine established based up 1 Kings 2:13-19. We see no reference to it in the NT. There is no statement in the NT that says that Mary is making intercession for us. NOTHING. Such is just made up of un-biblical nonsense.

[mobile21]

You know Bill, in the Old Testament the Queen Mother brought the petitioned needs of the people of Israel to the throne of her son the king like for example in 1 Kings 2:13-19.


Mary's intercession is exactly a reflection of this tradition,

There is no "tradition" regarding the passage in 1 Kings 2:13-19. The Bible NOWHERE sets this up as a "tradition" to be followed. It is a narrative passage and that is all. There is no doctrine established based up 1 Kings 2:13-19. We see no reference to it in the NT. There is no statement in the NT that says that Mary is making intercession for us. NOTHING. Such is just made up of un-biblical nonsense.

Every single thing contained in the Bible is doctrine, that's why there were 2 Synods (Synod of Hippo in 393 and the Synod of Carthage in 407) and 1 council (Council of Florence in 1442) dedicated to choosing the right books to conform Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament.

As for the intercession issue, I was surprised that many protestants in here believe in it. I discovered this on a thread concerning Michael Jackson's recent legal troubles, where most of them said they would focus on praying for him instead of signing petitions or whatever.

[Tyler]

"""What does the Bible say on this issue Charlie??

Only Christ Saves""""

The preacher and elders said Christ wouldn't save her unless she divorced her current husband, broke up their family, and tracked down her ex and attempted a reconciliation with him. They said this IS what the Bible says on this issue.

My question to you is: Do YOU agree with this? Is this what Jesus wants?

Charlie, it does not matter what "I Believe", or what you "Believe" for that matter! What matters is God's will and God's will alone!! Search the scriptures for your answer! Does the bible forbid divorce? If it does, then on what grounds?

On the last day I will hold NO ONE acountable for their sins! My "opinion" counts for nothing!!!

Christ however will pass judgement on the last day according to the Father's will. He is the one who has to be contended with, not me!

Only Christ Saves