In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit

[Kansasdad]

That's right. I don't tell anyone not to do such things. My own son-in-law, as I mentioned before, does it regularly, as does my dear friend. I do not cast a critical eye on them. They know why I don't do it, and I know why they do! We love and respect each other enough to allow it.

In this forum I have expressed myself a little more freely, but I wouldn't be so forthright with those who I have a serious relationship with. I trust no one has been offended by my remarks. If so, I apologize.

In Jesus,

Nancy

That part is puzzling to me, .......Why?

God Bless,

K.D.

[John R Nolan]

a) the Catholic Church is NOT the "great harlot," and i'm sick of people saying it is. Catholics consciously reject Satan in yearly renewal of baptismal vows. get over it.

b) i'm stunned that an innocent gesture of faith can be attacked with such malice. Thanks to darski and littlejoe for having the right idea...

however you pray, you are PRAYING.

God bless you sis,

No offense is meant toward you or any other individual member of the R.C. denomination.

It's not the congregations who are being attacked, I was a member of that system for many years myself, but it is the SYSTEM which is corrupt

The doctrines and teachings of the r.c.'s is contrary to what the Bible says, and any sincere study of Church histories will clearly expose the errors taught within the r.c. denomination

There is no Bible to support having a pope, a man, at the head of the church instead of GOD

There is no Bible to support Maryology; there is no Bible to support infant baptism; there is no Bible to support purgatory, and the list goes on

There are sincere, GOD loving people in all denominations, who may be able to access a far more glorious relationship with their Lord and Saviour if they got out of denominations , fellowshipped with people of like mind, according to Scripture, and got to know the GOD of the Bible rather than the god of religion

I never knew who GOD is until I was lead away from religiosity and into the WORD, and there are many Christians who would testify to the truth of that, I am sure

I never knew I needed to be washed in the blood of the Lamb, we were never taught from the Bible or even allowed to look in one

Believe it sis, there is a far better path, there is only ONE WAY, and that is through Him, and He is the WORD

In Christian love

Edited November 7, 2006 by John R Nolan

[EricH]

The fact that these forms are becoming issues may be an indication that folks have placed an undue emphasis on them. Worship is supposed to be about God. When we are more worried about what others are doing, or worried about justifying something we are doing, perhaps the focus has shifted from the One who is supposed to be the object of our worship, to the form itself.

Good point. Actually as I was contemplating this question, I was more interested in the actual words of ( in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,) as apposed to the hand motion in the sign of the cross. But I am finding the conversation about the sign of the cross interesting as well. A Baptist friend of mine made a comment that it is important to end our prayers in the name of Jesus. Ok I have no problem with that. The other day during our prayer group another Catholic man (yep there are two of us now) concluded with a prayer and ended the prayer with "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" I sensed a tension among the group, nothing stated just a sense. Now you know the motivation for the question. Why would those words create tension among a group of Christian men?

God bless,

K.D.

The words themselves should create no tension. It is the baggage that some people associate with them that will cause the tension. It is the same thing with raising hands, or singing modern choruses, or old hymns. All of them can produce negative reactions in people. That is what is so ironic about the whole thing. The very thing that is supposed to get us focusing on God (worship), gets us focusing on ourselves and others. Satan is smarter than we think sometimes

So what do you think are some of the tricks that satan uses that are succesful in getting Christians so hung up that scripture becomes points of division?

In this case I don't think it is scripture that is the stumbling block. It is practice. Rather than focusing on God, people are focusing on the means they or others use to worship God. It is sort of like when people get in arguments about the Spiritual gifts. The very things that God created to promote unity in the body of Christ, end up causing division.

[Floatingaxe]

That's right. I don't tell anyone not to do such things. My own son-in-law, as I mentioned before, does it regularly, as does my dear friend. I do not cast a critical eye on them. They know why I don't do it, and I know why they do! We love and respect each other enough to allow it.

In this forum I have expressed myself a little more freely, but I wouldn't be so forthright with those who I have a serious relationship with. I trust no one has been offended by my remarks. If so, I apologize.

In Jesus,

Nancy

That part is puzzling to me, .......Why?

God Bless,

K.D.

It is our tendency here, is all...hence the reason for the apology. However, I must say that I am a very forthright person in real life. I don't hesitate to call a spade a spade, but in cases where the matter is not serious, like this one, I tend to settle back a bit. Didn't do it today, for some reason! There was no malice involved.

Blessings!

[John R Nolan]

This is a question for those who believe in the Trinity. If you don't believe in the Trinity please don't respond.

As part of our Catholic Faith we often start and end our prayers with the sign of the cross and pray in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Why is this a Catholic symbol? If you are from a different denomination does this give you pause to end a prayer this way. If so, why? I really am curious about this, I don't understand how this became a Catholic thing. It seem to me that this should be a Christian thing.

Please don't turn this into an anti-Catholic thread, we have all been down that road far too many times.

Thanks,

Kansas Dad

God bless you, bro.

To avoid an anti Roman Catholic attitude is difficult,

No it is not, you just have to take personal responsibility for what you write. You made a choice to ignore my request. Hey it is a free country you can do as you please. However I would request that you take it to a different thread, and I would also request that other posters not respond to this kind of post. Thank you to the other poster for your dialogue, I know that Floatingaxe and Man have very strong opinions about the Catholic church, but they have managed to engage in the discussion without heading down that same old road. GeorgiaBlueGirl, thank you for being a part of this forum!

Now back on subject please.

Kansas Dad

Sorry to have offended you bro, it was not my intent.

My testimony is that I too was a part of that system and I now believe their teachings are contrary to Scripture

A Christian's responsibility is to stand by the WORD, not by any alternate teachings

What is written is to encourage any reader to search the Scriptures and ensure what they are believing is in line with what GOD says alone

There is no animosity or negativity held toward you or any other person, so, please forgive me in offending you, but I will always stand by what I believe, whether you or any other person agrees with it or likes it

If it's not in the Bible it is not of GOD

[Kansasdad]

This is a question for those who believe in the Trinity. If you don't believe in the Trinity please don't respond.

As part of our Catholic Faith we often start and end our prayers with the sign of the cross and pray in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Why is this a Catholic symbol? If you are from a different denomination does this give you pause to end a prayer this way. If so, why? I really am curious about this, I don't understand how this became a Catholic thing. It seem to me that this should be a Christian thing.

Please don't turn this into an anti-Catholic thread, we have all been down that road far too many times.

Thanks,

Kansas Dad

God bless you, bro.

To avoid an anti Roman Catholic attitude is difficult,

No it is not, you just have to take personal responsibility for what you write. You made a choice to ignore my request. Hey it is a free country you can do as you please. However I would request that you take it to a different thread, and I would also request that other posters not respond to this kind of post. Thank you to the other poster for your dialogue, I know that Floatingaxe and Man have very strong opinions about the Catholic church, but they have managed to engage in the discussion without heading down that same old road. GeorgiaBlueGirl, thank you for being a part of this forum!

Now back on subject please.

Kansas Dad

Sorry to have offended you bro, it was not my intent.

My testimony is that I too was a part of that system and I now believe their teachings are contrary to Scripture

A Christian's responsibility is to stand by the WORD, not by any alternate teachings

What is written is to encourage any reader to search the Scriptures and ensure what they are believing is in line with what GOD says alone

There is no animosity or negativity held toward you or any other person, so, please forgive me in offending you, but I will always stand by what I believe, whether you or any other person agrees with it or likes it

If it's not in the Bible it is not of GOD

I was not personally offended, I have just seen how negative such discussions as your post was headed that accomplished nothing. I had a sincere question and did not want it to get so negative. You raise the very same issues I have seen raised over and over again. There is a thread called ask a Catholic that address those issues in a non-confrontationals way. I would reccomend you look at that thread and post a reply there, or start a new thread. I realize that people come to the forum at different times and subjects that have been posted several times are often never seen by new posters. Unfortunately it is the nature of a forum.

God Bless,

Kansas Dad

[LadyRaven]

That's right. I don't tell anyone not to do such things. My own son-in-law, as I mentioned before, does it regularly, as does my dear friend. I do not cast a critical eye on them. They know why I don't do it, and I know why they do! We love and respect each other enough to allow it.

In this forum I have expressed myself a little more freely, but I wouldn't be so forthright with those who I have a serious relationship with. I trust no one has been offended by my remarks. If so, I apologize.

In Jesus,

Nancy

That part is puzzling to me, .......Why?

God Bless,

K.D.

I can hazard a guess. SOmetimes you agree to disagree with people you have to get along with much more readily than those with whom you have a passing contact with. Because it's not so hurtful to have a disagreement, it can be more cerebral and less emotional if you aren't emotionally wrapped up in the situation to begin with.

Am I close Nancy? (hmmm, nancy, th at's a nice name. I had a friend in HS named nancy. Her dad was a pentecostal preacher)

[littlejoe]

This is a question for those who believe in the Trinity. If you don't believe in the Trinity please don't respond.

As part of our Catholic Faith we often start and end our prayers with the sign of the cross and pray in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Why is this a Catholic symbol? If you are from a different denomination does this give you pause to end a prayer this way. If so, why? I really am curious about this, I don't understand how this became a Catholic thing. It seem to me that this should be a Christian thing.

Please don't turn this into an anti-Catholic thread, we have all been down that road far too many times.

Thanks,

Kansas Dad

Hi K.D.

I found this as some history as to how the sign of the cross came into being. I thought you might be interested in this.

http://www.pathlights.com/theselastdays/tracts/tract_22d.htm

The Sign of the Cross

Tertullian, one of the few authenticated Christian writers before 300 A.D., who advocated Sunday-keeping (active 196-220 A.D.), supplies careful instructions for keeping Sunday holy, in place of the Bible Sabbath, and then adds to it another "new idea"--the "sign of the cross":

"At every forward step and movement, at every going in and out, when we put on our clothes and shoes, when we bathe, when we sit at table, when we light the lamps, on couch, on seat, in all the ordinary actions of daily life, we trace upon the forehead the sign of the cross."

Seems to me it is more of a traditional thing.

My Web Blog

My friend I am not I catholic but I have many friends and some family who are. When I pray at home or the visits to the patients in the Hospital I don't sign myself. When I gave the blessing at our volunteer dinner I Gave the Catholics and any Lutherans the opportunity to do so,This is what I said before I began my prayer. For those of you whose tradition it is to sign yourself before you begin your prayers please do so now, so that we may be one Spirit ,one mind and one voice to the praise and Glory of God, and then I began my prayer. I believe anyone who added their Amen to my prayer it was their prayer also, I was just the voice. Love in Christ littlejoe