Let's look at the Holy Spirit...

[cjrose]

[...] May The Lord shine His Light upon your heart and may you give Jesus all your sins and pride and all your heart. [...]

I think it is great that you want me to be saved and that you took the time to write such flowery language, but please don't clutter the thread with these attempts to connect. If you would like to address me, instead of the OP, please post elsewhere and just let me know where to read. Then, I'll be happy to discuss eternity with you.

ethical, you entered this thread of your own free will and by doing so, we interact with each other. You now just insulted my brother who is more humble and Spirit filled that your attempts at being diplomatic come across just plain mean. You are asking questions and we are answering them for "your" sake because the Lord doesn't wish any to perish. So we make the effort out of obedience to the Lord and to respect you as you respect others. So please don't insult but be grateful that there is a family here who is making an effort out of love to answer your questions.

Can you please be a bit more kind and drop the attitude and you will find there are truly honest believers witnessing to you in many ways and attempting to find or touch upon something that has meaning for you and could change your life.

I'm asking sincerely, honestly and openly to please, be respectful as I have myself not been a great example and I apologize from the heart. Can you just sit back, take a breath (between your meals ) form a decent thought and not one that just flies out and you type it and comes across as if you are crossing your arms across your chest blocking any information so as not to absorb it. I just can't figure out why you are so combative...

[thepreacher]

ethical.atheist,

Sorry about all of this, but I have a lot of questions.

thepreacher,

That's okay. I'll do my best.

What? What IS spirit? Isn't God just God and that is it?

thepreacher,

God says he is spirit, that is without a solid form or shape. He also says if he would allow himself to be seen by us in his entirety, that the power would consume us. It would be like trying to walk up to the sun.

So God chooses to show himself in forms that won't destroy us. He chooses to show us in the things He created. God also chooses to show us by and through his son Jesus Christ as a man. He also chooses to show us through the Holy Spirit or the part of God that he chooses to show, differently than the other ways He portrays himself.

It is just His way of doing things.

So he ate the apple too?

thepreacher,

In one sense I can see where you would think that. But! You can take this line of thinking to ridiculous conclusions. For example, since God made the apple it must be part of him, so he ate himself also. I don't think so.

What God was really showing. God created us body soul and our spirit. God shows that he dwells with our soul and spirit. Adam and Eve ate of the fruit and that was a sin of the flesh, not the soul or our spirit.

So looking at it from the perspective of God's understanding, God didn't eat the fruit.

Well since God invented the attributes which we call human, that would mean that humans would have some attributes of God and some flawed stuff God decided to add/remove.

thepreacher,

NO! God created Adam and Eve with the attributes he wanted. Adam and Eve and all their children started adding all the flawed stuff. God created the potential of good or bad.

What!?!? I thought God can do anything!

thepreacher,

You forgot to finish your sentence. The complete sentence would be, "God can do anything He wants to". So if He doesn't do something your logic tells you he should, it is because He makes the rules and can do or not do what he pleases.

So we aren't in the image of God?

thepreacher,

We? Only those with the Holy Spirit in them and doing the will of God are in his image.

Again! Can't God just do whatever he wants?

the preacher,

Again, God does whatever he wants!

So... the one who knows the most about the world decides to rebel against God?

thepreacher,

Satan thought he could do it better than God and receive all the praise too.

Just like if you seached for the invisible pink unicorn, you might find that?

thepreacher,

That's just too funny! But more of. Just like if you searched for gold or silver or the perfect mate, you might find it.

What does this mean? What does the hole represent? What does the wall? Why are we in the dark. Can't God just give us his logic so that it would be easier to understand him, and thus, easier to believe/love him?

thepreacher,

The hole represents the things you cannot see using just your logic.

God won't force his understanding on people from what I understand. Also He chooses to give to some and not others for his own reasons.

To do what?

thepreacher,

To do God's will.

I would most likely do his will if I believed he existed and believed that what I was told was actually his will.

thepreacher,

First things first. Believing that God exists is the start of doing his will.

He wants me to have the holy spirit's child?

thepreacher,

God says if we are one of his children that we must be fruitful. That is portraying or showing the image of God through God the Holy Spirit that is in us.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control.

How do we know that commands we are given are from God and not a fellow man?

thepreacher,

That comes from believing the bible is the inspired word of God. Then reading it with the understanding of what applies to you. God will send His Holy Spirit and a preacher to help you understand.

[ethical.atheist]

ethical, you entered this thread of your own free will and by doing so, we interact with each other. You now just insulted my brother who is more humble and Spirit filled that your attempts at being diplomatic come across just plain mean.

WOw... Relax! I just couldn't figure out how the post related!

I just can't figure out why you are so combative...

Well... that is mostly because I am a ninja assassin .

[ethical.atheist]

Sorry about all of this, but I have a lot of questions.

That's okay. I'll do my best.

Cool beans

God says he is spirit, that is without a solid form or shape. He also says if he would allow himself to be seen by us in his entirety, that the power would consume us.

This is something I have always found questionable. I mean... if God created us, why didn't he just create us so that we could handle hanging out with him? Doesn't it seem kind of odd to you that God would create us in such way that is so delicate to the nature of his power?

And on top of that. From what I can tell, an omnipotent being would be able to do "anything." So being able to show himself completely* without it destroying us should be beyond simple for him.

*When I say completely, I mean without the help of the Holy Spirit, Jesus or an inflamed bush.

For example, since God made the apple it must be part of him, so he ate himself also. I don't think so.

Well he did make the apple. I mean, why would he even do that? ...just to tempt Adam and Eve? That sounds like a Puritan idea of what Satan does in the world. (You know...create temptations to steal souls from God)

God created Adam and Eve with the attributes he wanted.

So he gave us our flaws? I mean... if we didn't have the flaw of insecurity, Adam and Eve could never have been tricked by the serpent. Or...if Adam and Eve were capable of understanding God's intentions, they would have understood why eating the apple was a really bad idea.

Adam and Eve and all their children started adding all the flawed stuff.

Wait... so they "created" flaws without God's help?

You forgot to finish your sentence. The complete sentence would be, "God can do anything He wants to". So if He doesn't do something your logic tells you he should, it is because He makes the rules and can do or not do what he pleases.

Wait... so God didn't want to dwell in his creation anymore because his children made a mistake?

This sounds really weird. Imagine you tell your child not to touch the computer because you do your work on it. And one time, while you are looking (since God doesn't away), your child clicks the mouse a couple times and ends up deleting a file you worked a long time on. Now, your child realizes he did something wrong and hides from you in terror before you even have a chance to get upset... now, do you:

1. Curse your child and his future offspring, force him to leave your house (the garden) and stop talking to him.

2. See that your child has learned his lesson. ...understand that curiosity is something that is natural, bite the bullet (take care of the damage) and make sure you have an understanding. Then, go back to life as usual more confident than before that your child understands you and won't wrong you in the same way again.

In the country that I live in, if you choose 1, you go to jail.

God won't force his understanding on people from what I understand. Also He chooses to give to some and not others for his own reasons.

Hmmm... let me sum this one up to make sure I understand.

God wants us to love him, but he will only tell the people who already love him who he is. But if those people who love him tell someone who doesn't it won't make sense to them until you love him.

Continuted...

[ethical.atheist]

To do God's will.

How do you get on that boat? You have the holy spirit to be able to do God's will, but you can't get the holy spirit until you love him. You can't know what God is until you have the holy spirit. You can't possible love something until you understand what it is.

First things first. Believing that God exists is the start of doing his will.

Wait... I can't decide if I want to do his will or not until I decide that he exists, but part of his will is deciding he exists. Now I can't do God's will until I have the holy spirt. And I can't have the holy spirit until I love God. ...but wait... I don't even know he exists yet! See the problem?

**edit: removal of accidental quote leftover

[...]love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control.

Oh... well I can do that. Well... if you interpret "faith" as hope rather than belief without mountains of peer-reviewed evidence.

That comes from believing the bible is the inspired word of God. Then reading it with the understanding of what applies to you. God will send His Holy Spirit and a preacher to help you understand.

So we know the Bible is from God because it says in the Bible that it was. Wait... that doesn't make sense. You have to show the Bible as truth before you can believe that it came from God. ...so what evidence is there to show that the Bible is infallible truth?

Thanks again for chatting with me! It is cool to have someone not getting upset with me.

Edited December 15, 2006 by ethical.atheist

[ted]

Wait... I can't decide if I want to do his will or not until I decide that he exists, but part of his will is deciding he exists. Now I can't do God's will until I have the holy spirt. And I can't have the holy spirit until I love God. ...but wait... I don't even know he exists yet! See the problem?

He wants me to have the holy spirit's child?

Now that was a silly response. Playing games won't get you anywhere with God.

t.

[Guest]

Dear EA

{{{ Wait... I can't decide if I want to do his will or not until I decide that he exists, but part of his will is deciding he exists. Now I can't do God's will until I have the holy spirt. And I can't have the holy spirit until I love God. ...but wait... I don't even know he exists yet! See the problem? }}}

It sure does look hopeless!

"And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?"

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." (Mark 10:26-27 )

Pulling for you, bro!

[ethical.atheist]

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." (Mark 10:26-27 )

Pulling for you, bro!

So... it is not possible for me to believe in God, but God can make it possible. ...again it is God's fault that I don't believe in him?

[Guest]

Dear EA

Rascal!

{{{ So... it is not possible for me to believe in God, but God can make it possible. ...again it is God's fault that I don't believe in him? }}}

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13 )

Pulling for you Bro!

[sweetycakes]

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." (Mark 10:26-27 )

Pulling for you, bro!

So... it is not possible for me to believe in God, but God can make it possible. ...again it is God's fault that I don't believe in him?

God does everything in His time, E.A.

From your posts, I would assume that you are at least searching for the truth and meaning in Christianity. That you are not totally 'closed' to it.

As someone said in an earlier post: 'Faith is a gift from God.'

I remember when I was about 13 or 14, reading the New Testament. I read the part where Jesus said, "You must be born again, otherwise you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven."

At that moment, a dread fear came over me. I thought: 'I'm not born again. I don't know how to be born again. I don't even know what it means to be born again. I'm not saved. I don't know how to get saved. I cannot get saved.'

I was helpless.

Little did I realise that that was my starting point. I didn't know at the time, but what I thought was my death sentence actually turned out to be my salvation. When I realised that in God's eyes I was helpless to do anything about it myself.

Several months later, I was born again.

God saw my fear, reverence and helplessness. That is what He was looking for, I guess.

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."

"The angel of the Lord camps round about those who fear him."

Does this make any sense to you?

"You did not choose me; I have chosen you."