thepreacher Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2006 A human can be a judge one day. The next day save an injured person in an accident. They can go to the hospital and stay with that person until they are okay. They can be a parent at the same time they are doing all those things. God isn't male or female but chooses to be known as God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit all the time and everywhere. He is able to do that. We just can't do that. I'm not sure, but it really feels like you are contradicting yourself. Let me give an example a shot and you can tell me if I am understanding right. I'm ethical.atheist the Professor, ethical.atheist the Student and ethical.atheist the Chinese Food Aficionado. So the Professor teaches on tuesday nights, the Student tries to redefine web architecture systems and the Chinese Food aficionado goes into food induced comas. ...but really I am all things at once and these are merely different names I give myself that have to do with the job I am doing. ...but the reason I can't get away with calling myself three different things is because I am not omnipresent? ethical.atheist, I understand that using human examples to describe a god like entity is always going to fall short in some way. It is much more than comparing an ameba to a man or apples and oranges. I believe you can understand the possibility that a life force can be different than a human and still exist. I am not saying you have to believe that a life force exists. Only the possibility that it can be not only omnipresent but chooses to portray itself in different ways. Another human example that I believe tries to do the same thing that God does is in the movies. This is just my example. This is when one actor/director/producer plays several characters simultaneously. Not only acting but also being outside the movie directing the complete life of all the characters including his own character. The movie can be about the beginning and end of the world. If the director doesn't like a scene he can cut it out or change it any time he wants to. The beginning and end of everything is his creation and are all his choice. This actor/director/producer is always there from before the beginning until after the end of the movie. What we can do only in movies. I believe this is what God can do for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjrose Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,580 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/13/1960 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 I'm ethical.atheist the Professor, ethical.atheist the Student and ethical.atheist the Chinese Food Aficionado. So the Professor teaches on tuesday nights, the Student tries to redefine web architecture systems and the Chinese Food aficionado goes into food induced comas. ...but really I am all things at once and these are merely different names I give myself that have to do with the job I am doing. ...but the reason I can't get away with calling myself three different things is because I am not omnipresent? That's one way of looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethical.atheist Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2006 I believe you can understand the possibility that a life force can be different than a human and still exist. I am not saying you have to believe that a life force exists. Only the possibility that it can be not only omnipresent but chooses to portray itself in different ways. I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the limits of humans, but rather by definition and logic. If "God" is a group of three beings with godly powers who can act independently, then there are 3 gods who hang out with each other. If these three "beings" can't act independently, then they are merely appendages and you cannot access credit or blame to any individual one. For example, God and Jesus are separate decision-makers. They talk to each other. (Either that or Jesus talked to himself a lot.) All of this along with the holy spirit being the "expression of God to humans," makes me think that this must be three different entities we are talking about. So... either the trinity doesn't really mean anything and God is only one dude or there are three sub-gods who make up God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightofJesus Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 362 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/04/1955 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I'm curious about this idea of the Holy Spirit. I was under the impression that there was only one god in Christianity. How does this holy spirit do deeds separate from this God or this God do anything separate from the holy spirit? If the holy spirit is really only part of God, couldn't you say that anything God ever did was something that the holy spirit also did? ethical atheist, Noone can tell you about the Holy Spirit because it is not something the unbeliever is able to grasp. Im not insulting your ability to comprehend. Im simply informing you that the Holy Spirit is only something that comes through revelation...The Holy Spirit is the very essence of who God is...You cant know God unless he reveals himself to you...He does this through his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is promised to those who repent of their sins and are baptised in the name of Jesus. (Acts 2:38) The only way God can impart himself into all believers is by his Spirit, otherwise he would be in one person only.... Listen to what the scriptures say.... The spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the mans spirit within him...? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. (Now listen to this bit) The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:10-15) You as a man are trying to understand the things of the spirit of God even though you do not have the spirit of God. Because God has not imparted the very essence of who he is into "you" you cannot know him. Though you may try, you cannot know him unless he imparts himself into you....That is why it is written... "Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38) God cannot dwell in a place that is filled with sin. That is why a man must repent and acknowledge the cleansing power of what Jesus did on the cross. God is Holy...and it is written that the kingdom of God is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Romans 14:17) You see, you as a man have thoughts ea. And no one except you knows those thoughts....Therefore if you do not share those thoughts with anyone, then no one can truly know you..Sure people can think they know you, but how well do they really know you...They do not have your thoughts and they are not you...Just as you do not know their thoughts and you are not them. When God imparts his very spirit into the life of the Believer, the believer is able to know God. In that sense ea, you are capable of having a closer relationship with God than you are with your own mother and father. You dont even know your own mother or fathers thoughts...But God through his spirit witnesses to your spirit the truth of who he is. You can know Gods thoughts. This is not simply a hearing of Gods voice so to speak as it is a prompting or an inner voice or impression upon your spirt. The prompting or inner voice never says anything contrary to the word of God..This is how you discern between truth and lie. That is also why you hear so many people speaking of hearing voices in their heads....Jesus said, "my sheep will know my voice, and the voice of a stranger he will not follow." You cannot follow Jesus as the good shepherd if you dont know his voice.....If you dont have the Holy Spirit, you cannot know the voice of Jesus. It is the Holy Spirit who reminds us of everything Jesus said. Read the gospels...Jesus said, "I must go so the comforter can come..He the spirit will remind you of all I have told you." Jesus was one man who walked the earth, who could only be in one place at the one time...God indwells believers by his spirit. That way the body is the temple of God..He dwells "in" his people now and not in temples made by human hands. Though there are many believers, there is one spirit. The spirit of God. The same spirit is alive in all true believers.....Listen.. However it is written, "no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him", but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The spirit of God never witnesses anything to a mans spirit that is contrary to Gods Word..That is why Gods Word is the doctrine the believer lives by so as not to deviate from that truth. I began this post by saying that you cannot understand ea even if you wanted to....Yet I still tried in some way to explain it to you a little...I dont expect you to grasp what any of it means, but I thought Id post it anyhow...You may say that you can grasp the gist of it....But without the spirit of God you can only only comprehend according to your own mind which is without the spirit of God. The Spirit of God is heart revelation, not head revelation. It is because you cannot comprehend these things that you fail to understand how God can be the father the son and the holy spirit all in one. If you know one, you know all...Because they all witness the very same spiritual truth. I hope somehow that this post has been worth your while to read...I believe it is a post that glorifies God and speaks correctly of the truths of God. Though this is not even remotely close to scratching the surface of all there is to know...That is why the believer is everyday "growing in the knowledge of the Love of Jesus Christ." Regards, Ben. Ben this is so beautiful. If no one else benefited from it I did!! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepreacher Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2006 I believe you can understand the possibility that a life force can be different than a human and still exist. I am not saying you have to believe that a life force exists. Only the possibility that it can be not only omnipresent but chooses to portray itself in different ways. I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the limits of humans, but rather by definition and logic. If "God" is a group of three beings with godly powers who can act independently, then there are 3 gods who hang out with each other. If these three "beings" can't act independently, then they are merely appendages and you cannot access credit or blame to any individual one. For example, God and Jesus are separate decision-makers. They talk to each other. (Either that or Jesus talked to himself a lot.) All of this along with the holy spirit being the "expression of God to humans," makes me think that this must be three different entities we are talking about. So... either the trinity doesn't really mean anything and God is only one dude or there are three sub-gods who make up God. ethical.atheist, Exactly what I was saying, we are using "by definition and logic" that is human logic which cannot really help 100 % in understanding godly things. Another time you are talking about the actual act of human speaking in one conclusion, and being a like a human appendage in another for example. These are all human limitations definitions and logic. I am really not trying to trap you in any way. I am not even trying to convert you. What I am trying to do is, have you open up your senses of possibilities. All inventors do this or they wouldn't try to see what wasn't there and then invent it. It doesn't mean all inventors are religious. So let us start with one question at a time. So I am trying to come to any agreement about the possibility that if there was an alien, extra terrestrial somewhere in the universe. Would they have to have the same limitations, definitions and logic as we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethical.atheist Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2006 So I am trying to come to any agreement about the possibility that if there was an alien, extra terrestrial somewhere in the universe. Would they have to have the same limitations, definitions and logic as we do? By our definition of being, to which we categorize this god, yes! By all means, yes! I am, of course, assuming that we can agree that a being is a decision-making consciousness. These are all human limitations definitions and logic. Please read very carefully, as I think it will help your point of view of what I am saying: Our perceptions are limited to that of the logic we all possess. If our logic (3 is not 1) does not apply to God, then such observations like "God is one God but in three parts" means absolutely nothing. According to what you say, Mr. Preacher, we are not capable of understanding the nature of God. Right? So, why are you convinced that this God is only one god and 3 separate parts at the same time? You speak these in English words and rely on another's brain to apply them and understand... right? What I am discussing is our interpretation of this god being only one or three parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted December 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Please read very carefully, as I think it will help your point of view of what I am saying: Our perceptions are limited to that of the logic we all possess. If our logic (3 is not 1) does not apply to God, then such observations like "God is one God but in three parts" means absolutely nothing. According to what you say, Mr. Preacher, we are not capable of understanding the nature of God. Right? So, why are you convinced that this God is only one god and 3 separate parts at the same time? You speak these in English words and rely on another's brain to apply them and understand... right? Interesting, but not completely true. Our limitations in our perceptions are, indeed, shaped quite a bit by the logic we possess, but there are other factors, as well. One of them is, according to the Bible, the amount of truth that God has chosen to reveal to us in the first place. Deu 29:29 says as much. Although I use this verse quite a bit, it's not designed to be a fall back when we fail to understand things. We shoud continue to explore, investigate, and test what we know, but according to that verse, there are some things which will not be open to us here on earth. Just figured that it might help the conversation..... t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethical.atheist Posted December 6, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) One of them is, according to the Bible, the amount of truth that God has chosen to reveal to us in the first place.Um... I'm an atheist... so you can't explain things to me with the bible or its conjectures about God. I know that isn't really fare that I can talk about your book and you can't, but if I had a book, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on it. So if you are going to tell me something about God, you are going to have to qualify it with reason. Edited December 6, 2006 by ethical.atheist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneV Posted December 6, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 720 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/23/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1947 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Thankyou cjrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjrose Posted December 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,580 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/13/1960 Author Share Posted December 6, 2006 I'm curious about this idea of the Holy Spirit. I was under the impression that there was only one god in Christianity. How does this holy spirit do deeds separate from this God or this God do anything separate from the holy spirit? If the holy spirit is really only part of God, couldn't you say that anything God ever did was something that the holy spirit also did? ethical atheist, Noone can tell you about the Holy Spirit because it is not something the unbeliever is able to grasp. Im not insulting your ability to comprehend. Im simply informing you that the Holy Spirit is only something that comes through revelation...The Holy Spirit is the very essence of who God is...You cant know God unless he reveals himself to you...He does this through his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is promised to those who repent of their sins and are baptised in the name of Jesus. (Acts 2:38) The only way God can impart himself into all believers is by his Spirit, otherwise he would be in one person only.... Listen to what the scriptures say.... The spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the mans spirit within him...? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. (Now listen to this bit) The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:10-15) You as a man are trying to understand the things of the spirit of God even though you do not have the spirit of God. Because God has not imparted the very essence of who he is into "you" you cannot know him. Though you may try, you cannot know him unless he imparts himself into you....That is why it is written... "Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38) God cannot dwell in a place that is filled with sin. That is why a man must repent and acknowledge the cleansing power of what Jesus did on the cross. God is Holy...and it is written that the kingdom of God is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Romans 14:17) You see, you as a man have thoughts ea. And no one except you knows those thoughts....Therefore if you do not share those thoughts with anyone, then no one can truly know you..Sure people can think they know you, but how well do they really know you...They do not have your thoughts and they are not you...Just as you do not know their thoughts and you are not them. When God imparts his very spirit into the life of the Believer, the believer is able to know God. In that sense ea, you are capable of having a closer relationship with God than you are with your own mother and father. You dont even know your own mother or fathers thoughts...But God through his spirit witnesses to your spirit the truth of who he is. You can know Gods thoughts. This is not simply a hearing of Gods voice so to speak as it is a prompting or an inner voice or impression upon your spirt. The prompting or inner voice never says anything contrary to the word of God..This is how you discern between truth and lie. That is also why you hear so many people speaking of hearing voices in their heads....Jesus said, "my sheep will know my voice, and the voice of a stranger he will not follow." You cannot follow Jesus as the good shepherd if you dont know his voice.....If you dont have the Holy Spirit, you cannot know the voice of Jesus. It is the Holy Spirit who reminds us of everything Jesus said. Read the gospels...Jesus said, "I must go so the comforter can come..He the spirit will remind you of all I have told you." Jesus was one man who walked the earth, who could only be in one place at the one time...God indwells believers by his spirit. That way the body is the temple of God..He dwells "in" his people now and not in temples made by human hands. Though there are many believers, there is one spirit. The spirit of God. The same spirit is alive in all true believers.....Listen.. However it is written, "no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him", but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The spirit of God never witnesses anything to a mans spirit that is contrary to Gods Word..That is why Gods Word is the doctrine the believer lives by so as not to deviate from that truth. I began this post by saying that you cannot understand ea even if you wanted to....Yet I still tried in some way to explain it to you a little...I dont expect you to grasp what any of it means, but I thought Id post it anyhow...You may say that you can grasp the gist of it....But without the spirit of God you can only only comprehend according to your own mind which is without the spirit of God. The Spirit of God is heart revelation, not head revelation. It is because you cannot comprehend these things that you fail to understand how God can be the father the son and the holy spirit all in one. If you know one, you know all...Because they all witness the very same spiritual truth. I hope somehow that this post has been worth your while to read...I believe it is a post that glorifies God and speaks correctly of the truths of God. Though this is not even remotely close to scratching the surface of all there is to know...That is why the believer is everyday "growing in the knowledge of the Love of Jesus Christ." Regards, Ben. Ben this is so beautiful. If no one else benefited from it I did!! Thanks Amen Ben for taking the time and effort to post this! I would love to use this on my blog if I may? I definately benefited from it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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