Netherlands moves toward total ban on Muslim veils

[buckthesystem]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1945461,00.html

Netherlands moves toward total ban on Muslim veils

Dan Bell

Saturday November 11, 2006

Guardian

The Netherlands may become the first European country to ban Muslim face veils after its government pledged yesterday to outlaw the wearing in public spaces of the niqab, or veil, and the burka, or full-length cloak covering the head.

The right-leaning coalition said last night that it would look for a way to outlaw the wearing of all Muslim face veils. The grounds for a ban were laid last December when parliament voted in favour of a proposal to criminalise face coverings, as part of a security measure proposed by a far-right politician, Geert Wilders.

Rita Verdonk, the immigration minister, signalled that the government would now push for a total ban, even though the legislation would be likely to contravene Dutch religious freedom laws.

"The cabinet finds the wearing of a burka undesirable ... but cannot at present enforce a total ban," the Dutch news agency ANP quoted her as saying after a cabinet meeting.

Ms Verdonk suggested that existing legislation which limits the wearing of burkas and other full-body coverings on public transport and in schools did not go far enough, and that the cabinet would discuss as wide a ban as possible in the coming week.

"The government will search for the possibility to provide a ban," her spokeswoman told the Reuters news agency.

The announcement is in stark contrast to the laissez-faire image of the Netherlands. The country is known for its tolerance for drugs, prostitution and euthanasia, but in recent years has passed some of Europe's most unforgiving entry and immigration laws.

Religious tensions have been heightened by the murder of film director Theo van Gogh by a Dutch-Moroccan militant in 2004, and by the dramatic rise of Pim Fortuyn, an anti-immigration and anti-Muslim gay politician who was assassinated by an animal rights activist days before national elections in 2002.

Muslim groups estimate that as few as 50 women out of 1 million Dutch Muslims wear the burka or the niqab, but the groups have protested that a ban would increase feelings of victimisation and alienation. "What the government is doing now is totally disproportionate to the number of women who actually wear the burka," said Ayhan Tonca, chairman of an umbrella group of Dutch Muslim organisations. "The legislation we already have to protect people for security reasons is adequate," he added.

One Dutch-born Muslim, identifying herself only as Hope, told Reuters that she wore the niqab because she wanted to. "Nobody has the right to forbid it. If someone decides I cannot wear it, then I will feel suppressed," she said.

(Continues - link)

[angels4u]

Remember what happened in France when they were trying to forbid to wear the veil?

Do we need more violence?????

[Adarian]

Islam is all about violence. It doesn't matter if it is coddled, or opposed, violence always comes with Islam.

[buckthesystem]

Islam is all about violence. It doesn't matter if it is coddled, or opposed, violence always comes with Islam.

I don't disagree with you Adrian. However, I think (just opinion mind you) that the Netherlands government has a rather more sinister motive here.

With "face recognition technology" becoming more and more prevalent in Europe, they don't want anyone in the streets or anywhere else - soon it will be in your own home - who is "safe" from their cameras and their movements being tracked. It could be argued that "banning people from wearing veils" is pretty much the same as disallowing people to wear full-face motorcycle helmets in banks, but then banks are "private property". The streets and public transport are public places.

[Adarian]

For sure, you are quite right buckthesystem, England is considering mandatory chip implants lately. There have been a number of broadcasts on sattelite radio talking about it, and Worthy news has posted articles on it. Islam is simply one of the forces in play that will bring about the result of the desire for security at any cost, part of that cost being the freedom of autonomy being lost. Not long ago a policeman was sent to travel the world, beginning in Europe and ending up in the USA, staying on the move until a computer program found him via public camera using facial recognition software. He went through a few European nations, then came to the USA, where he was tagged by the computer system. Freakin' scary. But that is already the new reality. It is not coming, it is here. Any government can find a criminal or other undesirable on the run anywhere in the industrialized world where public surveilance cameras are installed.

[Candi770]

It seems that the Goal of these people is to take over. Why would they want to go to such a nasty place, legalised prostitution and drugs. I geuss their not to righteous are they. In a place like that, I would want a face mask. Yucko.

But, I will be watching this and we better watch closely. The Jihadist will see this as a threat to their rights.

A simple cartoon drove them mad-what will this do.

[Candi770]

For sure, you are quite right buckthesystem, England is considering mandatory chip implants lately. There have been a number of broadcasts on sattelite radio talking about it, and Worthy news has posted articles on it. Islam is simply one of the forces in play that will bring about the result of the desire for security at any cost, part of that cost being the freedom of autonomy being lost. Not long ago a policeman was sent to travel the world, beginning in Europe and ending up in the USA, staying on the move until a computer program found him via public camera using facial recognition software. He went through a few European nations, then came to the USA, where he was tagged by the computer system. Freakin' scary. But that is already the new reality. It is not coming, it is here. Any government can find a criminal or other undesirable on the run anywhere in the industrialized world where public surveilance cameras are installed.

Wow. Scary. Yeah, it seems they are giving away their rights in fear of the enemy. Please America, do not give in to this-

[buckthesystem]

For sure, you are quite right buckthesystem, England is considering mandatory chip implants lately. There have been a number of broadcasts on sattelite radio talking about it, and Worthy news has posted articles on it. Islam is simply one of the forces in play that will bring about the result of the desire for security at any cost, part of that cost being the freedom of autonomy being lost. Not long ago a policeman was sent to travel the world, beginning in Europe and ending up in the USA, staying on the move until a computer program found him via public camera using facial recognition software. He went through a few European nations, then came to the USA, where he was tagged by the computer system. Freakin' scary. But that is already the new reality. It is not coming, it is here. Any government can find a criminal or other undesirable on the run anywhere in the industrialized world where public surveilance cameras are installed.

Wow. Scary. Yeah, it seems they are giving away their rights in fear of the enemy. Please America, do not give in to this-

I fear it might be too late already. European countries are very blatant about this, but it seems that America is introducing the technology "bit by bit" and "sneakily".

As far as I know, so far, only Colorado, Iowa, and Virginia Beach (I know that Virginia Beach is not a state and so does not have their own specific driving licences, but I read that the technology was being used there) regularly use "face recognition software" on people using the "photo" on their driving licences. Of course, unless the "photo" on your DL is not a conventional photo' but a digital image, it couldn't be used for face recognition technology even if it is scanned into a computer, so maybe someone who is more tech. savvy could come up with an answer here.

And there was the 2000 incident whereby Tampa, Florida used face recognition technology on unwitting people. Viisage Technology's software matched 19 faces in the Tampa Super Bowl crowd to persons whose purported likenesses were contained in a law enforcement database, all of whom had criminal records but were not wanted by police, nor were there outstanding warrants for the individuals' arrests. Ybor City, a nearby coastal village, installed 36 of the surveillance systems. Many visitors to the city and civil libertarians expressed their utter disgust with the system, calling it a "virtual lineup. Pictures using digital cameras were taken of all the people entering the stadium, without their knowledge or consent.

Of course now there are "moves" to standardise the biometrics on DLs through out the country and add in them an RFID chip.

There will be no choice here unless you want to risk driving without a DL.