WAR WITH IRAQ

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shilou

Blessings to you Brother :thumb:

Love in Yeshua

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All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Work in Progress]

John, either I've misrepresented myself, or you have misunderstood me. Sorry 'bout that.

I am 100% completely aware of the actions of this monster of a human being. And yes, they are beyond attrocious, there are no words to describe them.

1. Again I say - Sadam Hussein's attrocities are NO worse then birthing a baby three quarters of a way out of the womb, jamming a scissors into the base of it's skull and then sucking out it's brains. Sorry, but I just can get all pious about what SH is doing to people and feel like it's America's responsibility to help them when America is slaughtering it's own. Where are the Iraqi people to "FIX" our holocaust? ? ?

2. Killing him will only make way for the next lunatic and solve nothing.

3. Can you imagine what would happen in our country if such a person tried to get power? It would never be allowed to happen. The people would not allow it. Why do the Iraqi people allow these attrocities to go on? How easy for them to sit back and let someone else come solve their problems, but what responsibility do THEY have in helping themselves? ?

4. SH's attrocities have nothing to do with our governments' plan to occupy that country and set up a whole new system of government. I am against that. They don't want it. We can use that money and energy right here at home.

Remove his WMD and get back home. We need help.

[Work in Progress]

Such is the crucial component regarding what a free, morally sensitive global citizenry must do in response to Hussein

[JohnS]

1. Again I say - Sadam Hussein's attrocities are NO worse then birthing a baby three quarters of a way out of the womb, jamming a scissors into the base of it's skull and then sucking out it's brains. Sorry, but I just can get all pious about what SH is doing to people and feel like it's America's responsibility to help them when America is slaughtering it's own. Where are the Iraqi people to "FIX" our holocaust? ? ?

2. Killing him will only make way for the next lunatic and solve nothing.

3. Can you imagine what would happen in our country if such a person tried to get power? It would never be allowed to happen. The people would not allow it. Why do the Iraqi people allow these attrocities to go on? How easy for them to sit back and let someone else come solve their problems, but what responsibility do THEY have in helping themselves? ?

4. SH's attrocities have nothing to do with our governments' plan to occupy that country and set up a whole new system of government. I am against that. They don't want it. We can use that money and energy right here at home.

1. ---- Amen. Do you think anyone would be interested in discussing Estrada's confirmation, or lack thereof?

2. ---- Amen. I've often wondered how they choose leaders in the Mideast. Seems like they set out to find the craziest guy in the country and put him in charge.

3. Stick around (Lord willing). Hillary still might be elected. The courts are corrupt. We might be closer than you think. If there is one thing I've learned lately, things can change overnight.

4. We don't know the real reasons, only what is said by Bush,  and our wonderful government doesn't actually have to have money in hand to spend it. Our government isn't going to fix our problems, either. Dad Ernie had it right:

Yours and my best weapons are on our knees because we realize that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities in heavenly places.

If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

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Such is the crucial component regarding what a free, morally sensitive global citizenry must do in response to Hussein

[The Journey]

Shilou,

 The Koran orders the good muslim to kill every Christian or Jew not submisive to allah and his prophet.   They would kill every one of the million missionaries.

- Steve

[Catsmeow]

Shilou:

You seem so down, I wanted to give you a verse that might lift your spirits:

Romans 8:28

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

As for me, I don't know what to think about the war. I am so torn between the two sides...pro and con...I'm virtually immobile. I see the points both make and both seem valid.

Sometimes it's hard to know which side of the fence to stand.

I can only hope and pray that God will, in His infinite kindness and grace, allow whatever transpires to be used for the good and for His own glory.

[Work in Progress]

LOL @ the "Hillary" comment John!

I agree with everything you said. I think we can find a happy medium in this discussion.    :inlove:

[Guest shilou]

Hi Cats

I'm hardly down, in fact I'm quite lifted up, you see what Christ really freed me from was my own thinking. While I was still in bondage I thought there always had to be a reason that I could understand for everything. I thought there had to be man made justice, I thought I had to get even. I thought others should pay for wrongs they had done. And of course many other things. Since finding freedom in Christ I know that in the end God will set all things straight in the way He sees fit, which may not even remotely resemble what we think. Whenever someone is pointing out all of SH atrocities I think wow Saul would have never made it to Paul in this crowd. I also believe people are not looking at it like nothing good comes out of evil. Any evil committed is evil regardless if we minimize it and call it casualties of war done for their own good or whatever.

I see one element of all this no one seems to want to look at. Mans heart. There is already in this world alot of hatred towards Americans. So let's say we bomb them. Those that hate us have more justification, real or delusionary to hate us. More finger pointing goes on, our media is making light of all the death and destruction there stirring up the Muslims to more hate. So we remove Saddam for what we consider to be good reasons and very possibly we have created a more radical Muslim population then we already have. Regardless of all the rational arguments we put to this we can not get one Muslim to change the condition of their heart. Only God can do that via the Holy Spirit.

There are alot of Muslims sitting on the fence right now. But let's throw some pictures of Arab children dead in the street and see them become angry at the atrocities that have been committed. In their hearts are they going to explode in hatred and desire refenge or are they going to be real rational and say well they were casualties of war for the better good? How would we respond to this here? I guess you could say I just see it as adding more fuel to an already raging fire. Then of course they are going to make Americans more angry because they plan on hitting us where we hurt. Torching those oil fields is going to send our gas prices up and that will make us mad, because we think we are doing them a favor.

We will be angry and cry for more justice. How many people here will use it as an excuse to act out against the Muslims here? Then the Muslims here begin to retaliate. The Peace niks get into the act. Peaceful demonstrations turn ugly, luting, rioting, burning here. Not only here but all over the world, Muslims taking to the streets, churches burned, christians slaughtered. All of this is going to effect our already shaky economy and more people will get angry. You see we Americans don't mind so much if genocide is being committed in Bosnia, or ethnic cleansing is going on in Albania. But you start making us even a little bit uncomfortabe now there is a problem. Sure as a nation most want to bomb Saddam but none want to pay higher gas prices. And most will blame any thing we go through on others, and we will retaliate. This is not just about taking out a dictator, this is going to reach global perportions.

Since our conception man has been at war for one reason or another. All the rationalization and justification can not change that. What does God say. Why do the nations plot in vain? All of this is only so that we look to God and everlasting life with Him. Christ came and gave us a COMMANDMENT, not a suggestion. Love thy neighbor, I take that to mean anyone who isn't me. He did not say unless they were this or that. If I need to pick a side as some have told me, then I pick Gods side whatever that may entail. If He says love thy neighbor I say Ok. If he says remove all malicious thoughts, and all slander from my lips, I say Ok. If He says we wrestle against powers and principalities not flesh and blood I believe Him. The only place I can even wrestle on that level is on my knees not behind an M16. In a world that is quickly falling apart it is the job of the christian soldiers to go up against the spiritual forces that seem to be guiding some in this conflict. And to keep a level head in all the chaotic information coming at us. Live by the sword and die by the sword. Does that mean if it is literally in our hands or what thoughts also that we are entertaining in our heads? I don't know but I was commanded to love and I'll just have to leave it at that. You see Cats I don't have to worry about all that stuff because I'm safe with Christ. And now that I know that I can go to the Father in prayer for all those who are not. If I harbor hate towards them I'm not going to ask the Father for their salvation. In effect I am released from figuring out all the right and wrong of everything because Christ has set me free from being the judge of it all. Now that was some bondage.

Love in Yeshua

Shilou

[Lanakila]

I listened to a great sermon yesterday twice on tv, by Charles Stanley regarding war, called Take Courage. It may be replayed later this week, I hope, and maybe I will figure out this vcr LOL. I would advice all who question what our nation is doing, to watch this sermon. In Touch Ministries Charles Stanley it was on ABC yesterday morning, and INSP last night. I especially liked this statement by Charles that Christians must honor another man's wife, by taking care of them while their husbands are deployed, putting their lives on the line. (just my bias)

[Lanakila]

The love thy neighbor, does that apply to Nations Shilou? I would insist that is improper application of the scripture. There is no command in scripture against war, actually its quite the contrary, if you might read the OT. Read Romans 13 again, we have a just cause for war, in this instance, and this nation must be united under this Christian President that is seeking God's will in regards to this nation. The right to protest and be a pacifist in this nation was guarenteed by the blood of soldiers, and the rights of the Iraqi people to be free will be bought with soldiers blood, hopefully not my soldier (Lord please protect him)