John 14 and the New Jerusalem

[Ovedya]

John 14:2 is incorrectly translated as "mansions." Please read my posting above regarding this!

The Father's house is His household, it is His family, composed of all the redeemed, regenerated, blood-washed, spirit regenerated believers. These believers are each individually the abodes indwelt by the Father, Son and Spirit - the Triune God (v. 23). The Lord's "going to prepare a place" refers directly to His death and resurrection - which is the subject of His discourse!

The "mansions" interpretation has done nothing for Christians over the centuries but cater to the vain and fleshly imaginings of the mind.

How wonderful it will be in eternity for us to live in mansions of splendor, eat feasts of rich and delectible foods, play our favorite games and engage in our favorite earthly pasttime activities, for thousands of years! (???)

Feh.

What about Jesus?

[Ovedya]

There is profound spiritual significance to all that John saw. There is also a literal component..namely that there is a place for the redeemed, a place to reign with Christ. God is great in revealing just a bit of what it is like! You cannot overly-spiritualize all that John saw, for fear of missing the revelation of a new creation that we will be a part of. John surely saw actual, physical things! No doubt about it.

Reducing the deep profound symbols and types in the Bible to something which caters to the flesh and the vain imaginings of the mind is missing the revelation of the new creation. Yes, there is a place for the redeemed to dwell. That place is in the Triune God.

[Floatingaxe]

There is profound spiritual significance to all that John saw. There is also a literal component..namely that there is a place for the redeemed, a place to reign with Christ. God is great in revealing just a bit of what it is like! You cannot overly-spiritualize all that John saw, for fear of missing the revelation of a new creation that we will be a part of. John surely saw actual, physical things! No doubt about it.

Reducing the deep profound symbols and types in the Bible to something which caters to the flesh and the vain imaginings of the mind is missing the revelation of the new creation. Yes, there is a place for the redeemed to dwell. That place is in the Triune God.

No. Calling what God is providing and now preparing for us vain imaginings is really the wrong attitude. Jesus Himself said He has gone to prepare us a PLACE. the Word of God explicitly states physicalities of that place that no one can deny. You will sure be surprised when you get there! God created us to have a desire for "home" and He Himself has a home...we are created in His likeness--so of course we will have His same desire for home also. Home is in His presence--you are right there! But it is a physical place also...so far beyond our wildest imaginations that our human minds cannot take it in--hence the small glimpse that God has allowed.

[Ovedya]

John 14:...

1. Do not let your heart be troubled; believe into God, believe also into Me.

2 In My Father's house are many abodes; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be.

4 And where I am going you know the way.

5 Thomas said to Him, Lord, we do not know where You are going; how can we know the way?

6 Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.

10. Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works.

11. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves.

12. Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes into Me, the works which I do he shall do also; and greater than these he shall do because I am going to the Father.

28. You have heard that I said to you, I am agoing away and I am coming to you. If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Where is the place that Jesus was going to prepare for us? By His very own words - to the Father.

You can't overspiritualize something that Jesus said, which was purely spiritual in nature (John 6:63b)

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, to the Father--where He resides...obviously He was somewhere else.

[Ovedya]

Yes, to the Father--where He resides...obviously He was somewhere else.

Actually, verses 3 and 10 respectively. Jesus was in the Father and He was going to the Father to prepare a place. Where? In the Father - verse 23

[Floatingaxe]

Revelation 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,

[Ovedya]

Greek word "Mone" is what is translated "mansion" or "manse" and it means "abode" or "dwelling place".

The "mansion" interpretation agrees with the rest of scripture.

I refer you back to Post 23, in which I addressed the translation issue:

The Greek word "Mone" (transliterated) is the noun form of the verb "Meno," which means "to remain in place," or, "to be present continually." This form of the word is only used twice in the New Testament, in John 14:2 and in verse 23. Therefore, if verse 23 reads, "abode" than verse 2 should logically also read, "abode" in the translations. Unfortunately in many translations one is traslated "mansions" while the other is translated "abode." If Christ and the Father come to make an "abode" within the believers, then certainly He is not making a "mansion" in them. An abode is simply a place of dwelling. Christ and the Father come to dwell within the believers to be their life and their source. This dwelling takes place in the human spirit, which is the vessel to contain the life of God (Rom. 9:23; 2 Cor. 4:7; 2 Tim. 2:20)

Also, the word "Oikya" which is translated "house" in the king james, appears over ninety times in scripture, and all but two of them are translated as "house" and not "household". It is never used in reference to the "Temple of God".

Oikia should not be in the feminine form according to the context. Technically it should be Oikos, but in any case, it's simply a matter of forms. The word can refer either to a physical dwelling or those that live within that dwelling. You should have looked both forms to get a more full understanding of the word.

Your interpretation does not even make sense, because Jesus said that if he goes away he wil come again, that "where I am you may be also", If jesus is coming to us to take us away, and you claim we are the abodes, then where are we going?

To the Father. Although the Triune God is in us, that is, in our spirit, we are not fully in Him. When the Lord returns to claim His bride we will be fully issued into the Triune God - in other words, completely transformed and glorified.

I don't know about games and earthly pastimes, I have NEVER thought about such an absurd thing before as it regards heaven. But the Bible clearly says we will eat in the next life, that we will have a dwelling place in heaven in the city of God. That we will have certain responsibilities even. And that we will worship God and he will dwell with us.

As it regards Jesus, the idea some have of sitting around the throne of God all day long for eternity grovelling and trying to think of some new appelative to say about God is not what is portrayed in the Bible either. yes you do see people worshipping at the throne of God, but it is not meant to suggest that is all there is to heaven.

Else God would have created Adam and Eve and just set them in his "throne room in the sky" and had them do a lot of bowing and scraping. But that was never the point of human creation. Mankind was created with certain functions and purposes on the earth, and those will remain to some degree, as we ARE human beings. Fallen or redeemed, we are still human beings. Human beings do not worship God by merely bowing and scraping. We worship God by our work, our relationships, by praises and song, and so on.

I agree with all of this.

[Openly Curious]

John 14:2 is incorrectly translated as "mansions." Please read my posting above regarding this!

The Father's house is His household, it is His family, composed of all the redeemed, regenerated, blood-washed, spirit regenerated believers. These believers are each individually the abodes indwelt by the Father, Son and Spirit - the Triune God (v. 23). The Lord's "going to prepare a place" refers directly to His death and resurrection - which is the subject of His discourse!

The "mansions" interpretation has done nothing for Christians over the centuries but cater to the vain and fleshly imaginings of the mind.

How wonderful it will be in eternity for us to live in mansions of splendor, eat feasts of rich and delectible foods, play our favorite games and engage in our favorite earthly pasttime activities, for thousands of years! (???)

Feh.

What about Jesus?

The word translated mansions was not incorrect if you look it up in the greek you will find it can mean dwelling place or mansion. The reason the translator's chose the word mansions instead of dwelling place in the Father's house is to give us insight into all the splendor of it and that it is not just a room in which we would think of a room to be but a literal mansion like place to live for all eternity.

You say that the mansions interpretation has done nothing for Christians down through the ages but just caters to the vain and fleshly imaginings of the mind. So in essence what you are saying is the word of God has been a destructive force to the believers and can't be relied on and you are also saying the church is so carnal and worldly we imagine eating roast pheasant every night and only playing with our X-boxes in heaven.

Then you ask What about Jesus? While I believe Jesus was telling me the truth that I will have a mansion in the Father's house I am not so carnal minded as to believing that we take the carnal worldly things in this life with us into glory with us as naked we came into this world and naked we shall leave it.

Jesus came to reconcile us back to the Father and to give us access to the Father through Him and it was His shed blood that made eternity possible for me to live with my Creator the one who created and made me for His purpose and I also will be with Jesus the one who died for me as He will be there also and I shall behold Him in all of His glory as He will be the light of the holy city New Jerusalem as will be seated on the right hand of God the Father on the throne as I to with all of heaven join in and sing Holy, Holy, Holy to the king of kings and lord of lords.

I will leave it at that but I must say that my confidence in your beliefs have deminished as a result of your postings here. One can out intellect themselves right out of the blessings and rewards that He has so promised us after this life is over and one can cast their confidence in those truths away and lose faith along the way but you can't out intellect God what He says is true. I myself find great comfort in knowing I have a place prepared for me as I have been laying up my treasures their now for alot of years where thieves and moth can't break in and steal nor corrupt those things as my heart is there and not here on carnal things below.

OC

[Ovedya]

Revelation 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,