John 14 and the New Jerusalem

[Floatingaxe]

John 14:2 is incorrectly translated as "mansions." Please read my posting above regarding this!

The Father's house is His household, it is His family, composed of all the redeemed, regenerated, blood-washed, spirit regenerated believers. These believers are each individually the abodes indwelt by the Father, Son and Spirit - the Triune God (v. 23). The Lord's "going to prepare a place" refers directly to His death and resurrection - which is the subject of His discourse!

The "mansions" interpretation has done nothing for Christians over the centuries but cater to the vain and fleshly imaginings of the mind.

How wonderful it will be in eternity for us to live in mansions of splendor, eat feasts of rich and delectible foods, play our favorite games and engage in our favorite earthly pasttime activities, for thousands of years! (???)

Feh.

What about Jesus?

The word translated mansions was not incorrect if you look it up in the greek you will find it can mean dwelling place or mansion. The reason the translator's chose the word mansions instead of dwelling place in the Father's house is to give us insight into all the splendor of it and that it is not just a room in which we would think of a room to be but a literal mansion like place to live for all eternity.

You say that the mansions interpretation has done nothing for Christians down through the ages but just caters to the vain and fleshly imaginings of the mind. So in essence what you are saying is the word of God has been a destructive force to the believers and can't be relied on and you are also saying the church is so carnal and worldly we imagine eating roast pheasant every night and only playing with our X-boxes in heaven.

Then you ask What about Jesus? While I believe Jesus was telling me the truth that I will have a mansion in the Father's house I am not so carnal minded as to believing that we take the carnal worldly things in this life with us into glory with us as naked we came into this world and naked we shall leave it.

Jesus came to reconcile us back to the Father and to give us access to the Father through Him and it was His shed blood that made eternity possible for me to live with my Creator the one who created and made me for His purpose and I also will be with Jesus the one who died for me as He will be there also and I shall behold Him in all of His glory as He will be the light of the holy city New Jerusalem as will be seated on the right hand of God the Father on the throne as I to with all of heaven join in and sing Holy, Holy, Holy to the king of kings and lord of lords.

I will leave it at that but I must say that my confidence in your beliefs have deminished as a result of your postings here. One can out intellect themselves right out of the blessings and rewards that He has so promised us after this life is over and one can cast their confidence in those truths away and lose faith along the way but you can't out intellect God what He says is true. I myself find great comfort in knowing I have a place prepared for me as I have been laying up my treasures their now for alot of years where thieves and moth can't break in and steal nor corrupt those things as my heart is there and not here on carnal things below.

OC

Amen! The things that God has already revealed are glimpses to add to our wonderful HOPE!

[Openly Curious]

Revelation 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,

[Floatingaxe]

Revelation 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,

[Ovedya]

The word translated mansions was not incorrect if you look it up in the greek you will find it can mean dwelling place or mansion. The reason the translator's chose the word mansions instead of dwelling place in the Father's house is to give us insight into all the splendor of it and that it is not just a room in which we would think of a room to be but a literal mansion like place to live for all eternity.

There are only two places the word is used in the entire New Testament. Both places are in the two verses from John 14 that I pointed out. They either mean the same thing or they mean different things. According to the context of the passage, "mansions" is an incorrect translation.

Again, please consider a few words from the publication I've been mentioning in this thread:

"The redefined notion of the Father's house with the believers as the many abodes mentioned above also accords with the etymology of the Greek word [Mone] (pl. - [menine] abodes) in John 14. The word [Mone] is a noun derived from the verb [meno] "abide, remain, stay" in Greek. [Meno] occurs over 100 times in the New Testament and is very common in John's writings, occurring 64 times, including 10 times in John 14-17 in which the notion of the believers abiding in God and God abiding in the believers is emphasized (15:4-10). [Mone] carries notions of both a gerund, "staying, abiding, tarying," and a place to stay in, "and abode, a dwelling place." [Mone] occurs only twice in the New Testament, in John 14:2 and 23. Understanding [Mone] in verse 2 as mansions or homes that jesus is preparing for the believers in heaven and to which He will take them at His return does not accord with its use in verse 23 and the meaning of the verb [meno].

An alternative understanding of [menine] as stations, night stops, or resting places for travellers on a journey was taken by Origen (and accepted by a few modern commentators), who considered them as stations on the road to God after death (11:6). This interpretation may have been foremost in the mind of Latin translators who rendered [mone]

mansio

(a stopping place). The Latin word may have influenced the choice of the English word

mansion

, which was first introduced into English translations by Tyndale and from there came into the king James Version. However, the English word

mansion

never conveyed the the sense of a stopping place, but carried the notion of a dwelling place. Later it picked up its narrower modern sense of a large stately residence. While the interpretation of a stopping place fits the etymology of [mone] better than

mansion

, both interpretations have difficulties, particularly in the context of John 14-17. The best interpretation acknowledges the etymological link between [menine] and [meno] and treats [mone] in verse 2 as a reference to the believers as the many abodes produced as a result of the Father and Son coming to make an abode with them in verse 23. This abode issues from the mutual indwelling of the Father and Son and the believers (in verse 20) which is stregnthened by the mutual abiding in John 15:4ff. As Raymond Brown points out it is, "much more in harmony with Johannine thought to relate

mone

to the congnate verb

menine

, frequently used in John in reference to staying, remaining, or abiding with Jesus and with the Father (619)."

The brackets I added above indicate the transliteration of the Greek words, which I could not post on the boards. If you can read Greek it might be more clear in the actual article (page 2): http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2000/02/00_02_gl.pdf

You say that the mansions interpretation has done nothing for Christians down through the ages but just caters to the vain and fleshly imaginings of the mind. So in essence what you are saying is the word of God has been a destructive force to the believers and can't be relied on and you are also saying the church is so carnal and worldly we imagine eating roast pheasant every night and only playing with our X-boxes in heaven.

Not at all. It's the mansions interpretation that has caused so much damage, not the Word of God itself.

[Ovedya]

Revelation 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,

[Floatingaxe]

Revelation 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,

[Ovedya]

Revelation 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,

[Floatingaxe]

Revelation 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying,

[Ovedya]

So then in your understanding the earth becomes heaven, rather than having a separate and new heaven and new earth?

I'm not trying to argue here, just trying to see where you're coming from.

[Openly Curious]

The word translated mansions was not incorrect if you look it up in the greek you will find it can mean dwelling place or mansion. The reason the translator's chose the word mansions instead of dwelling place in the Father's house is to give us insight into all the splendor of it and that it is not just a room in which we would think of a room to be but a literal mansion like place to live for all eternity.

There are only two places the word is used in the entire New Testament. Both places are in the two verses from John 14 that I pointed out. They either mean the same thing or they mean different things. According to the context of the passage, "mansions" is an incorrect translation.

Again, please consider a few words from the publication I've been mentioning in this thread:

"The redefined notion of the Father's house with the believers as the many abodes mentioned above also accords with the etymology of the Greek word [Mone] (pl. - [menine] abodes) in John 14. The word [Mone] is a noun derived from the verb [meno] "abide, remain, stay" in Greek. [Meno] occurs over 100 times in the New Testament and is very common in John's writings, occurring 64 times, including 10 times in John 14-17 in which the notion of the believers abiding in God and God abiding in the believers is emphasized (15:4-10). [Mone] carries notions of both a gerund, "staying, abiding, tarying," and a place to stay in, "and abode, a dwelling place." [Mone] occurs only twice in the New Testament, in John 14:2 and 23. Understanding [Mone] in verse 2 as mansions or homes that jesus is preparing for the believers in heaven and to which He will take them at His return does not accord with its use in verse 23 and the meaning of the verb [meno].

An alternative understanding of [menine] as stations, night stops, or resting places for travellers on a journey was taken by Origen (and accepted by a few modern commentators), who considered them as stations on the road to God after death (11:6). This interpretation may have been foremost in the mind of Latin translators who rendered [mone]

mansio

(a stopping place). The Latin word may have influenced the choice of the English word

mansion

, which was first introduced into English translations by Tyndale and from there came into the king James Version. However, the English word

mansion

never conveyed the the sense of a stopping place, but carried the notion of a dwelling place. Later it picked up its narrower modern sense of a large stately residence. While the interpretation of a stopping place fits the etymology of [mone] better than

mansion

, both interpretations have difficulties, particularly in the context of John 14-17. The best interpretation acknowledges the etymological link between [menine] and [meno] and treats [mone] in verse 2 as a reference to the believers as the many abodes produced as a result of the Father and Son coming to make an abode with them in verse 23. This abode issues from the mutual indwelling of the Father and Son and the believers (in verse 20) which is stregnthened by the mutual abiding in John 15:4ff. As Raymond Brown points out it is, "much more in harmony with Johannine thought to relate

mone

to the congnate verb

menine

, frequently used in John in reference to staying, remaining, or abiding with Jesus and with the Father (619)."

The brackets I added above indicate the transliteration of the Greek words, which I could not post on the boards. If you can read Greek it might be more clear in the actual article (page 2): http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2000/02/00_02_gl.pdf

You say that the mansions interpretation has done nothing for Christians down through the ages but just caters to the vain and fleshly imaginings of the mind. So in essence what you are saying is the word of God has been a destructive force to the believers and can't be relied on and you are also saying the church is so carnal and worldly we imagine eating roast pheasant every night and only playing with our X-boxes in heaven.

Not at all. It's the mansions interpretation that has caused so much damage, not the Word of God itself.

poohey and double poohey,

I have an earthly tabernacle now wherein the spirit of God resides in my earthen vessel of clay my body and I abide in Him and He in me on this earth. But my earthly tabernacle will perish at my death and I shall take up my new residence in the heavenly tabernacle the New Jerusalem where I have a permenant place prepared for me. Your teachings only tears away at one's faith and does nothing to build up believers. I don't agree with your assessments.

The textus receptus is the only correct translation in which you and I do not have a copy of that being the case I will stick to the fact that you are implying that I cannot rely on the word nor interpret it because it is not properly translated and is only doing harm to us poor believers who can't understand the word of God. As I have said you are only hurting the faith of others in holding to this flawed intelluctual teaching of yours. I do not wish to argue with you but you are way out there on this one.

OC