What if the Anti-Christ was not a person at all?

[stafy]

people did not anyone bother to thing? satan as been around from the beginning so I'm hoping that this post is a joke, in which case i do get it, ha! ha! ha!.

[LossForWords]

I don't think anything was meant as an "arguement" per say...it was just a thought. An interesting thought, but just a thought. Nobody is preaching it as truth, or that they even strongly believe in it, just saying that it could be possible.

[forrestkc]

Forrestkc,

for someone who is, by your own words, is not interested in eschatology and end times, you are making a lot of effort trying to push your computer theory.

People say that tv is evil and internet is evil. If it hadn't been for tv I wouldn't have a pc. and if I didn't have my pc I wouldn't know as much as I do about the bible as I do now, which isn't as much as some on this board but more than a lot.

Well, as I said, its more of a thought experiment than anything else. I don't really even consider it as a viable theory, but rather almost more a philosophical question. So, I am not really pushing it per say, because its not a theory that I actually subscribe to, but rather I am playing the devils advocate for purposes of discussion.

[eric]

'sokay fkc, no offence, as everyone has a right to speculate and that is all we can do.

We had a bloke on this board that reckoned that saddam hussein would some how get free and would be the a/c. So if you see a man with a shaggy beard and a crink in his neck.......run for cover.

[FredD]

I haven't read through all the responses in this thread, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned...

In my opinion, the Anti-Christ is both a person AND a spirit, at least according to the New Testament. The spirit, or demon presence will occupy an individual who goes about eventually making war against the saints.

If some of you have not read Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow by Constance Cumbey, it would be a good read. The New Age Movement fully expects there to be a coming PERSON (whom they refer to as Maitreya, the Christ) who will unite the world as one, both in economics and religion. They have been working towards it since Theosophist Alice Bailey's writings of 1875. The writings were finally made public in 1975 (Alice had asked that they be kept secret for 100 years). Her books (close to 30 of them I believe) were written with the help of her "mentor" and they are religiously followed like a recipe. It's utterly fantastic. With the encroachment of the Emergent Church/Spiritual Formation movement within the church, it's mind-boggling what is occurring today. I used to think that the great apostasy that Paul spoke of was going to look like everyone LEAVING the church. What I'm much more inclined to believe now is not only do people NOT leave the church, but the New Age Movement is ENTERING the church, leading Christians away from the truth to doctrines taught by seducing spirits (demons).

I'm an orthodox Christian who tends to take the Bible literally. That does not mean that if I'm reading a section of the Bible that is obviously allegorical, I take that literally as well. However, there are major aspects of the Bible that in my opinion SHOULD be taken literally and as Christians, we certainly should be aware of the times. We were warned about this by both Paul and Jesus.

Are some of you aware for instance that the head of the European Union (EU) is Javier Solana? His position was created with two different documents and both are numbered 666. Now, out of the all the hundreds or thousands of documents that this organization produces each year, I think it's more than coincidence that the number 666 is attached to those two documents. A book that is an excellent source and goes into great detail on this subject is Recommendation 666 by Herbert L. Peters (http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/).

There is going to be tremendous persecution of Christians prior to Christ's return. When you read some of the articles published by people like Benjamin Creme, Marilyn Ferguson and many others others, it's very obvious what they intend to do and interestingly enough, much of what they push goes along prophetic lines and they haven't even read the Bible. They're much more interested in receiving direct instruction from their "guides."

We need to be aware of the times, not to be worried or preoccupied with them, but as Christ said "When these things happen, look up for your redemption draweth nigh." He wouldn't have told us that if He didn't want us to be watchful and aware.

Edited January 7, 2007 by FredD

[Guest reno]

Forrestkc,

Bible prophecy is as allusive as Bigfoot is seen. I to have little interest in it at all, yet there are a few terms that the religious world use as touchstones for bible prophecy, and the term Antichrist is one.

I recently spent time in 1st John and looked at this word Antichrist. You are right, it is not a person nor is it a computer. The antichrist is a message that Jesus did not come in the flesh- 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

[AnExample]

I realize that this whole notion is what C.S. Lewis would call a "suppositive".

Just the same, why could a thinking, and thinking is the key, a future super computer not be the anti-Christ? If a computer were truly intelligent, then it could do evil right?

Computers are programmed by men. Men are the intelligence behind a computer's mind (if you will). The word says, "Little children, it is the last hour: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists whereby we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, the would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. "1 John 2:18-19. From these scriptures, it would seem that the antichrists are them who have fallen away from belief in Christ Jesus' atoning death...They really never did believe, but appeared to believe. The Spirit of the AntiChrist does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. 2John v. 7 reads: "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a ceceiver and an antichrist. The antichrist deceives, is against Christ, thus is a person or group of persons since he must "confess." Antichrists are those who are against or refuse to believe Jesus' testimony.

[nebula]

Umm, guys -

We are tripping over semantics here.

Yes, John referred to any one who denied Jesus as being the "anti-Christ". However, he was not referring to the Beast he saw (whether before or after, I do not know the time frames of the writing) in his vision (in Revelation). Calling this beast the anti-Christ is something that has been handed down to us from someone - I do not know who or when or why.

When we say, "Anti-Christ," we are thinking of the Beast that rose out of the sea.

There is no indication from the letter (1 John) that John has this in mind when he said "anti-Christ".

[FredD]

But doesn't anyone think that the references to the AntiChrist as a "he" (Paul's use of the masculine in his letters, etc.) and the idea that he causes all to have the mark before they can buy or sell would indicate that this is an actual person?

Frankly, I don't believe the study of prophecy is as elusive as some might think. It's worth nothing that the subject was important to Jesus, John, Peter and Paul and mentioned in the gospels. I think the only time Christ indicates that we can't know something about it is when He says that we won't know the day or the hour of the end. Other than this, I can't imagine that God would put that information in the Bible so that we could NOT understand it.

To me, it's like the OT prophecies. When the prophets were guided to write those, they didn't really understand what they were writing about according to Paul (which, by the way, is an excellent "proof" that the Bible is inspired) and that they longed to figure out what the writings pointed to. Today, we know that to be Christ, as He is the fulfillment of the OT. I believe that this is the same with Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation regarding prophecy. When John saw his visions, he described them the best that he could with his knowledge and verbiage and he probably had no real clue what he was looking at.

For our day and age, I think the prophetic events are unfolding right before our eyes.

We have a guy who is head of the European Union (EU) by the name of Javier Solana. His position (he actually holds three positions as high minister of the EU), was created with two documents, both with the number 666 attached to them. As we might know about how laws are made and passed, a bill with a number is introduced into the congress (for instance AB1587, for Assembly Bill 1587). If the bill passes, then that number stays associated with that bill. It is the same with the EU. They produce volumes of documents, articles and bills each year that their membership must discuss and in many cases, vote on. Two of those bills, as I say which have the 666 attached to them, were approved for the creation of the post that is now filled by Javier Solana. Is he the AntiChrist? No idea, but it's very possible that the actual AntiChrist can rise up and take over that position. As it stands now, Javier Solana is the most powerful man in all of Europe and he is often referred to as Mr. Europe.

For years, presidents have wished that they could call ONE phone number and talk to the leader of the European states. That is now in existence.

Did you also know that this month begins a potential 7-year treaty with Israel and the Arab states around it with the EU?

To me, this kind of thing it too important to ignore. Christ told us to watch and pray and be alert to the times. If He told us that, how difficult can it really be to understand not only what's going on in the world today, but if there is any connection between the events that are unfolding and the prophecies that are recorded for us in the Bible?