Gay Marriage or Civil Union?

[PBob]

Right, the question is one of tactics and approach.

What would Christ really want of us in these cases and on these cultural issues? In some ways being continually upset by our culture, being so mad about things is not showing the peace of Christ. It is really more like the secular side, dividing things up with a winner and a loser and fighting a political power fight. Christ did not do that when He walked the earth.

PLEASE READ THE TOTAL POST - PBOB

You are so right, and I see wisdom in it.

WHEN I FIRST BECAME A PASTOR 8 YEARS AGO - I HAVE A NEW MINISTRY NOW - THE FIRST QUESTION I WAS ASKED WAS "PASTOR SHARE YOUR VISION FOR "OUR" CHURCH." MY RESPONSE WAS AND STILL IS "TO TRAIN, EQUIP AND RELEASE THE SAINTS, THAT'S YOU, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY (GREAT COMMISSION - WITH 1 CORINTHIANS 13) AND TO SEEK THE LORD THAT OUR ASSEMBLY WOULD FUNCTION IN SUCH A WAY THAT THE WORLD WOULD LOOK IN AND SAY - "SEE HOW THEY LOVE ONE ANOTHER!! THAT OUR LITTLE PART OF THE BODY WOULD FIT IN WITH THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY RIGHTLY..."" IT CERTAINLY IS NOT NUMBERS, MONEY, BIGGER BUILDINGS,FELT NEEDS, PROGRAMS, ETC... ITS ALL ABOUT BEING HIS HIS HIS HIS AMBASSADORS.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM NOT ANGRY... BUT SEEKING TO BE HIS SERVANT AND WAKE-UP HIS PEOPLE.. FOR HIS GLORY... I WILL GET ON MY SOAP BOX BUT I TRY TO SEEK HIS WILL... FORGIVE ME IF ANYONE IS OFFENDED BY THIS APPROACH (EZEKIEL 33) REBUKE ME IN THE LORD IF NECESSARY.

NUF SED

[Smalcald]

Hey pbob I was not pointing at you at all, I was basically talking to myself which I do sometimes to help me and encourage my own behavior when it goes astray.

You sound like you are reaching out with kindness to homosexuals.

I know it was brought up before, just a small point, but I really do have a hard time reading the all caps, it hurts my eyes.

[Arthur Durnan]

Homosexual "marriage" and homosexual "civil union" are promoted NOWHERE in Holy Scripture. For one vital fact, God never made two men or two women to procreate....or to shack-up. The Church of Jesus Christ should clearly, unapologetically call people to leave the homosexual life-style via faith in Jesus Christ and give people every support in leaving that learned behavior.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[PBob]

Right, the question is one of tactics and approach.

What would Christ really want of us in these cases and on these cultural issues? In some ways being continually upset by our culture, being so mad about things is not showing the peace of Christ. It is really more like the secular side, dividing things up with a winner and a loser and fighting a political power fight. Christ did not do that when He walked the earth.

etc. READ THE WHOLE QUOTE - PBOB

You are so right, and I see wisdom in it.

First - floatingaxe I love your logo <

[freedfromsin]

Well thanks for the exchange of thoughts, Steve.

THEY (SIN) ALL GET YOU TO THE SAME PLACE... I WAS A RC AND THEY DIVIDE SINS INTO VENIAL AND MORTAL - VENIAL GETS YOU TO PURGATORY (WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE IN) AND MORTAL YOU GO STRAIGHT TO HELL. SINCE CHRIST DIED AND PAID THE ENTIRE PENALTY THERE IS NO NEED FOR PURGATORY - IF WE REPENT AND CONFESS (AGREE WITH GOD) CONCERNING OUR SIN THAN WE ARE FORGIVEN.

NOW, DOES IT TAKE 1 UNCONFESSED LIE OR 2 - STEALING A CANDY BAR OR A PENNY FROM A LITTLE OLD LADY. I CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW ALL THINGS - BUT I AM SURE GOD IS JUST AND WILL DO THE RIGHT THING. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT WE SIT AROUND AND DEBATE WHAT SIN DESERVES WHAT PUNISHMENT DA DA DA .... NOW - IN OUR EYES SOME SINS ARE OBVIOUSLY BIGGER THAN OTHERS - MURDER VS A STRONG TAP ON THE HEAD IN ANGER - SEXUAL SIN ESPECIALLY INVOLVING CHILDREN - SOCIETY WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE AND DO WHAT SEEMS RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYES - YOU KNOW IF THE WHOLE WORLD VOTED IN FAVOR OF SAYING THAT A LITTLE LIE IS NOT SIN - THAT WOULD NOT CHANGE, IN MY OPINION, GOD'S POSITION OR THE FACT THAT IT IS STILL A LIE.

YES YES YES - OBVIOUSLY SOME SINS CAUSE MORE HARM THAN OTHERS BUT THEY ALL LEAD TO THE SAME PLACE WITHOUT REPENTANCE... DOES GOD FORGIVE ALL OF THEM EQUALLY IF ONE REPENTS AND ASKS FOR FORGIVENESS? i THINK - YES. WE NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF THIS. DO WE AS CHRISTIANS AND AS A SOCIETY NEED TO REACT DIFFERENTLY TO MURDER VS HATE - YES YES BUT JESUS SAID IF YOU HATE (SOMETHING LIKE THIS) YOU HAVE MURDERED. THE PROBLEM LIES IN HOW SHOULD WE RESPOND BOTH AS AN INDIVIDAUL OR AS A SOCIETY. DEATH PENALTY; 10 YEARS TO LIFE --- I SUGGEST WE SEEK THE LORD CAREFULLY ON THIS ONE. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO WOULD CONDEMN YOU ETERNALLY FOR DIVORCE - OTHERS DON'T WANT THE DEATH PENALTY... GREAT - WE ARE FREE TO CHOOSE AND EXPRESS OUR THOUGHTS BUT THE FINAL FINALFINAL JUDGE IS THE LORDS. I SUGGEST WE MOVE CAREFULLY PASSING OUR JUDGEMENT; SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT AND DO WHAT HE LEADS US TO DO RATHER THAN ASSUMING OUR GREAT INTELLIGENCE IS GREATER THAN HIS.

IS IT VENIAL OF MORTAL BIG OR SMALL HARMFUL OR NOT ....GOOD QUESTIONS

BOTTOM LINE LET US AS HIS FOLLOWERS BE LIGHT AND SALT AND BRING LOVE (AND REPROOF - MY PASTOR JUST CAME IN AND SUGGESTED THIS - i AGEE )RATHER THAN CONDEMNATION TO THOSE IN SIN...

NUF SED

hello Pbob,

I am not trying to be smart here but by your last statement I don't think that you would like the way that Jesus dealt with those who lived in sin while He was here presching. Jesus was open to anyone who was willing to listen. (Ears to hear), but He was also very clear with to those who decided that they could continue in their sin.. Let me ask you something. At what point in your dealing with a homosexual do you explain to them that they are in sin and that to be saved thhey have to repent? I ask because I too hhave dealt with themm. One more question. I asked this before but never saw an answer. About how many are coming to Christ that you deal with the way that you do it. About what percentage?

[PBob]

hello Pbob,

I am not trying to be smart here but by your last statement I don't think that you would like the way that Jesus dealt with those who lived in sin while He was here presching. Jesus was open to anyone who was willing to listen. (Ears to hear), but He was also very clear with to those who decided that they could continue in their sin.. Let me ask you something. At what point in your dealing with a homosexual do you explain to them that they are in sin and that to be saved thhey have to repent? I ask because I too hhave dealt with themm. One more question. I asked this before but never saw an answer. About how many are coming to Christ that you deal with the way that you do it. About what percentage?

FORGIVE ME FOR THE LENGTH OF THIS POST

1. The point I am trying to make is I do not believe that I or anyone else is expected by the Lord to condemn anyone or to convict them of their sin. that is the ministry of the Holy Spirit (PRAISE GOD) We may disagree - that's OK. Is it possible that until they are convicted by the HS they don't even know they are in sin....?

2. Forgive me for not responding - not intentional - anyway as soon as I speak with them (as the HS leads) i either give them a tract like the 4 Spiritual Laws or one I prepared for the 2nd Annual Day to Be Gay" held in Sullivan County NY called "What if?" (see below)

I speak of Jesus and His death upon the cross to take upon Himself the penalty for our sins and encourage them to consider all this in terms of the three great truths below in my signature. I explain that we are saved by grace not works.

I almost always say, "One of the greatest gifts that I believe we have been given by our Creator is free will - we can choose - the choice is yours. What if the Bible is true? and I give them a Bible and tell them to read the gospel of John. I don't even get into Leviticus, etc. - they already know it is there (usually). I do say that homosexuality is considered an abomination and a sin by God in the Bible - it's their choice to believe or not."

3. i have not led any to Christ personally but have had several ask me to pray for them - some have come to a Bible study and others just consider me a royal pain in the neck. I have good relationship with others - which in my opinion allows for additional witness - Some plant, some weed and some harvest...

What I do do however, is contiune to pray for them and take every opportunity given to me to show the love of Christ - I NEVER (yelling) condone their sin or excuse it.

I hope this helps..

See the tract I wrote below specifically for The Annual Day to be Gay - a few years ago. This in posted on my website.

"Originally written as a tract and handed out at the 2nd Annual Day To Be Gay held at the Delaware Valley Youth Center in Callicoon, NY sponsored by Out Load and Queer a radio program on Public Radio Station "WJFF" in Jeffersonville, NY. A letter to the editor published in the Sullivan County Democrat may also be found on this page.

Permission is granted to reprint and publish this tract by the author. Please acknowledge that you have used the tract by sending an e-mail to ...

What if?

Written by:

Pastor PBob Ph.D.

Who alone is responsible for the contents

Please don

Edited January 13, 2007 by PBob

[eric]

Pbob.

If your witnessing was laid on your heart by the holy spirit then, that's what you must do. We are all different, because our genetic inheritance, and if you feel comfotable in your ministry of witnessing to the gay community, I think that is great. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. It takes a certain *touch* to witness to different types of sinning and I haven't got that flare as far as the gay community is concerned.

God bless you in your endeavours.