creation

[His son]

All you who insist that science is authoritative and to be placed in higher authority than The Bible should check out all the Christian scientists writtings on these subjects. One I can remember is Dr. Carl Baugh, who has proved instant creation. He has a web site. The following Scripture identifies all six days of creation as to time.

Gen 1:5-31

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

(KJV)

[nebula]

Hey, His son!

I'm going to have to be mean and nasty again, but one thing I learned by getting in these debates is to do your research before making statements.

I looked up Carl Baugh in a Google search and came up with this web site: http://www.bibleandscience.com/otherviews/baugh.htm

It shows how many of his claims have been found to be very incorrect. This does not help the cause of your argument.

And believe it or not, where I have come to stand on this issue as of this time has nothing to do with considering science as a greater authority than the Bible. I tend to agree with how this guy put it.

From: http://www.bibleandscience.com/science/creation.htm

There are many good Christians on all three views of creation: 1. Young-earth Creationists, 2. Old-earth Creationists, 3. Theistic-evolutionists. Many try to harmonize the Bible with modern science, but I see this as fruitless. I believe the Bible was not meant to be a science book, but a spiritual book. II Timothy 3:16 clearly states that the Bible is inspired by God so that it is profitable for instruction in righteousness not instruction in science. Trying to use Genesis One as a science text is like trying to use a screw driver for a hammer.

The above theories all try to pour modern scientific meanings back into Genesis that the original writer, or audience would have never meant or understood. One must understand the ancient Near Eastern background to interpret Genesis one. What would the Hebrew words of Genesis One meant to the audience in the first millennium BC?

I see Genesis one as a polemic against the surrounding heathen nations, who worshipped many gods. Genesis is also etiological. See my detailed analysis of Genesis One.  Click here

Each Christian should study for himself and be persuaded in his own mind which view is right after looking at each. If my view is different than yours, we can agree to disagree. We should not fight among ourselves thinking we are the only one right, and everyone else is wrong. For there are many good Christians who believe all the views mentioned above. Our Salvation does not depend on which view of creation we believe. The Bible says to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" not believe in Young-earth creation or Day-age theory and thou shalt be saved.

Stephen C. Meyers

Peace!

[Guest shadow2b]

-Within this discussion it has been noted that the writers of Genesis had a different view of it because of their knowledge at their time.

-Hello AO & to Worthy-Boards

-Just to clarify--I hope?? There were NOT "writers" of the book of Genesis as well as the first five

-books of the BIBLE---there was ONE "writer" MOSES--unless you subscribe to some of

-the"religious teaching institutes""theories" that there were "students"of moses that wrote the

-first five books of the BIBLE over several decades instead of by just one man "Moses"which is the

-BIBLES position.....???????

-GOD-BLESS-ALL-TRUTH-SEEKERS---------------------Gary--

[His son]

Hey, His son!

I'm going to have to be mean and nasty again, but one thing I learned by getting in these debates is to do your research before making statements.

I looked up Carl Baugh in a Google search and came up with this web site: http://www.bibleandscience.com/otherviews/baugh.htm

It shows how many of his claims have been found to be very incorrect. This does not help the cause of your argument.

And believe it or not, where I have come to stand on this issue as of this time has nothing to do with considering science as a greater authority than the Bible. I tend to agree with how this guy put it.

From: http://www.bibleandscience.com/science/creation.htm

There are many good Christians on all three views of creation: 1. Young-earth Creationists, 2. Old-earth Creationists, 3. Theistic-evolutionists. Many try to harmonize the Bible with modern science, but I see this as fruitless. I believe the Bible was not meant to be a science book, but a spiritual book. II Timothy 3:16 clearly states that the Bible is inspired by God so that it is profitable for instruction in righteousness not instruction in science. Trying to use Genesis One as a science text is like trying to use a screw driver for a hammer.

The above theories all try to pour modern scientific meanings back into Genesis that the original writer, or audience would have never meant or understood. One must understand the ancient Near Eastern background to interpret Genesis one. What would the Hebrew words of Genesis One meant to the audience in the first millennium BC?

I see Genesis one as a polemic against the surrounding heathen nations, who worshipped many gods. Genesis is also etiological. See my detailed analysis of Genesis One.

[nebula]

So who found his claims to be incorrct?

Did you read the web page I linked?

Examples:

There has been much false information given out by Carl Baugh (Creation Science Museum). The human footprint he bought is clearly a carving. There are no clear human footprints in the Paluxy River except the ones that were carved which are anatomically wrong.

Carl Baugh's dinosaur claws are actually crocodile teeth. The supposed human tooth is a fish tooth. The supposed wood is iron oxide. The supposed human finger is most likely a burrow filling. The large skeleton is just 200-300 years old and not part of the Cretaceous layer.

. . .

The hammer in the rock, called the "London Artifact" is most likely a 19th century miner

[artsylady]

Hi Nebula:

First an apology. On every other 'debate' forum I mentioned that I'd be taking a holiday during the Christmas season, but it looks like I forgot to do that here and just disappeared.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of Carl Baugh either.

Regarding your comment about AIG - remember, these guys ARE scientists. And they'll recant on things if they are found to be wrong. I think they have integrity.

Were you ever able to look at the site I posted regarding scientific truths found in the Bible?

[whatsitmean]

This web page did it for me with Carl Baugh.

A Matter of Degree: Carl Baugh's Alleged Credentials

I had a 2 video set from Carl Baugh (4 hours) of his teaching program that my wife bought for some Sunday school program, I thought it was really good. I loaned them to a co-worker who was not a Christian and as we were discussing different points of the tape, I went on the internet to find collaborating information. I found this page and told him to throw the tapes in the garbage.

If you notice, the article is well over a decade old. If the things were not true, I

[artsylady]

Whatsitmean.

If you enjoy studying science and creationism, answersingenesis.org is reliable and honest. They'll update new information, recant when necessary and they are scientists. There are many young earth creation scientists out there that belong to reliable organizations. Institute for Creation Research is another good one.

Here's one page from AIG that mentions some arguments NOT to use and also mentions Kent Hovind and Carl Baugh. They're interesting guys to listen to and some of their stuff is okay, but I wouldn't trust them enough to even bother with them too much and definitely don't quote them unless you get the facts straight first.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/...aq/dont_use.asp

I also definitely don't trust talkorigins.com. When you read their stuff, critique it very, very carefully.

[artsylady]

Nebula:

Did you take a look at the other thread on apologetics? (title is "Does God believe in athiesm") Interested on your comments regarding that discussion.

I'd also like to tell you what I find one of the biggest problems with the old earth scenario. There are billions of fossils out there, yet only about a thousand 'transitionals'. Even if those fossils really are true transitionals, (which i don't think they are) aren't the numbers way out of wack? Shouldn't they number in the millions of billions as well?

I'd be interested to know what you do believe. Do you believe in the gap theory? If so, how many years did God take to create the earth?

[artsylady]

http://www.stilez.freeserve.co.uk/apol/int3.html

Nebula: Here's another page on scientific truths in the Bible. This one had some astronomy, which I thought might interest you.

And I don't think the washing of hands under running water had much to do with spirituality, basically because other verses in the same context speak of burying one's excrement and the sick quaranteeing themselves. These laws were given for preservation and were thousands of years ahead of science.