Christian environmental stewardship

[nebula]

forrest -

You aren't helping here.

[Smalcald]

Well at a minimum I would like to see us stop subsidizing environmental destruction with our tax dollars. I would also like us to actually start paying for using the common environment, the pricing mechanism would work.

For example the government provides our tax dollars to subsidize new construction along the coast in areas that are prone to hurricanes and flooding. Why does the government do this? Well because private insurers working on a basis of profit and loss won't touch those areas for good reason. Now if a private landowner wants to build there, fine that is her risk, but don't ask me to subsidize that construction by insuring it for hurricanes. Without government subsidized flood and hurricane insurance we would see much less development along our environmentally sensitive coastal areas.

Another example is our vast federal land holdings largely in the West. Now those belong to me and you, those are OUR property in common as a citizen of the US. Why should our government sell the mineral rights to that land at way way below market prices to the energy and timber industry? Well good lobbying pays off. Once again a truly free market would probably mean much less drilling, mining and timber on these sensitive areas.

My point is simply we at least need to stop giving away our resources and subsiding environmental degradation.

We should all have to pay some sort of usage fee for dumping our CO waste into the air. The air is a common good, we all own the air. But because no one has private property rights to the air we all overuse this resource because it is not priced properly.

[forrestkc]

Well at a minimum I would like to see us stop subsidizing environmental destruction with our tax dollars. I would also like us to actually start paying for using the common environment, the pricing mechanism would work.

For example the government provides our tax dollars to subsidize new construction along the coast in areas that are prone to hurricanes and flooding. Why does the government do this? Well because private insurers working on a basis of profit and loss won't touch those areas for good reason. Now if a private landowner wants to build there, fine that is her risk, but don't ask me to subsidize that construction by insuring it for hurricanes. Without government subsidized flood and hurricane insurance we would see much less development along our environmentally sensitive coastal areas.

Another example is our vast federal land holdings largely in the West. Now those belong to me and you, those are OUR property in common as a citizen of the US. Why should our government sell the mineral rights to that land at way way below market prices to the energy and timber industry? Well good lobbying pays off. Once again a truly free market would probably mean much less drilling, mining and timber on these sensitive areas.

My point is simply we at least need to stop giving away our resources and subsiding environmental degradation.

We should all have to pay some sort of usage fee for dumping our CO waste into the air. The air is a common good, we all own the air. But because no one has private property rights to the air we all overuse this resource because it is not priced properly.

I could not agree with you more. 100% I agree. Best post of the thread!!! Your post is a light of reason in this thread!

You are so right about public lands. A lot of people fall into the trap of calling them "government lands". They don't belong to the government though, they belong to all of us.

[eric]

After reading through the entire thread, I have a fair idea where most are coming from.. and to refer back to the original OP, I believe what is wanted, is to know which is the most important duty for a chrisian, regarding the stewardship of the planet or the preaching the gospel concerning God's plan of redemption of souls for His coming kingdom.

Okay it was God's intention according to Genesis.1. that Adam was placed in the garden to tend it for God, but Adam blew it and everything turned into a different ball game and sin entered and it became, every man for himself, and it's been that way ever since.

You always have to go back to the grass roots of the problem. Well God tried for hundreds of years to train up men to give the people instructions to live as HE wanted, but no one would listen, so HE came Himself and the rest is history.

Now from the time of the fall until the start of Christ's ministry, I dont recall anywhere where God pushed any enviromental or conservation issues, but He made very clear that if you wanted to be reconcilled back to Himself and His coming Kingdom, you were to repent, for starters, and receive Jesus as your Lord and savior, endure to the end and you would be free from all the yuck that man has caused by his insatiable greed.

Am I a conservationist......to a degree yes, I am, but not from a greenie's pov, but because I like clean green unpolluted towns to live in. Would I leave a more pressing engagement to rush into the surf to try and save a pod of whale that washed ashore....no. I have been commissioned to save souls not whales. Do I believe in global warming?....Plenty of evidence to prove that it's getting warmer.....do I believs it's caused by the emission of greenhouse gases?...no way.

I have enough faith in God to let Him sort things out and in the meantime I will try a be about His business in trying to reach the lost......I'm sure I'v missed something, but when I rember it I will post it. so dont hunt and shoot or catch more fish than you need and dont litter.

[forrestkc]

Now from the time of the fall until the start of Christ's ministry, I dont recall anywhere where God pushed any enviromental or conservation issues, but He made very clear that if you wanted to be reconcilled back to Himself and His coming Kingdom, you were to repent, for starters, and receive Jesus as your Lord and savior, endure to the end and you would be free from all the yuck that man has caused by his insatiable greed.

Actually, the scriptural basis for Christians being good stewards of creation (the Environment) is quite strong. I broke it down in a different thread, but I will go ahead and post it here:

Let's start with Genesis 1:26

Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground."

Leviticus 25-23-24

"The land shall not be sold in perpetuity; for the land is mine, and you are but aliens who have become my tenants. Therefore, in every part of the country that you occupy, you must permit the land to be redeemed.

So we are created in the spiritual image of God, and we are given dominion over God's creation. Otherwise to be stewards of Creation. Now what is a steward? A steward is someone who looks after something on behalf of someone else. Therefore, we are to look after God's creation on behalf of God.

The Creation is for us to use but but not exploit:

Jeremiah 2:7

"When I brought you into the garden land to eat its goodly fruits, You entered and defiled my land, you made my heritage loathsome."

James 5:5

"You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter."

What happens if we are good stewards of God's creation?

Leviticus 26:4-6

I will give you rain in due season, so that the land will bear its crops, and the trees their fruit; your threshing will last till vintage time, and your vintage till the time for sowing, and you will have food to eat in abundance, so that you may dwell securely in your land. I will establish peace in the land, that you may lie down to rest without anxiety. I will rid the country of ravenous beasts, and keep the sword of war from sweeping across your land.

What happens if we are poor stewards of God's creation?

Revelation 11:18.

"The nations were angry and your wrath has come. The time has come for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great - and for destroying those who destroy the earth."

What is the purpose of God's creation? It is to glorify God.

Psalm 96:11-13

Let the heavens be glad and the earth rejoice; let the sea and what fills it resound; let the plains be joyful and all that is in them. Then let all the trees of the forest rejoice before the LORD who comes, who comes to govern the earth, To govern the world with justice and the peoples with faithfulness.

Isaiah 43:20

Wild beasts honor me, jackals and ostriches, For I put water in the desert and rivers in the wasteland for my chosen people to drink,

What about individual species, plants and animals? Let's look at Genesis again:

Genesis 1:11-12

Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it." And so it happened: the earth brought forth every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it. God saw how good it was.

Genesis 1:20-21

Then God said, "Let the water teem with an abundance of living creatures, and on the earth let birds fly beneath the dome of the sky." And so it happened:

God created the great sea monsters and all kinds of swimming creatures with which the water teems, and all kinds of winged birds. God saw how good it was,

Genesis 1:24-25

Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living creatures: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals of all kinds." And so it happened:

God made all kinds of wild animals, all kinds of cattle, and all kinds of creeping things of the earth. God saw how good it was.

So God sees his creation, the plants and animals from the smallest organisms to the largest animals walking the earth, as he created them as good.

So lets break this down:

God created the earth and all life on it to Glorify Him.

God sees his entire creation as he created it as good.

God created man in his spiritual image and gave him dominion over his creation.

God's creation is his, not ours, we are to be stewards of his creation.

We can use his creation, but not exploit it.

We are to live simply (I did not quote the scripture on this one, but there are hundreds of references to this in scripture).

If we are good stewards of his creation, then God's creation will provide for our needs.

If we are poor stewards of his creation, then we will bear God's wrath come judgement.

One final point, The Great Commission tells us that we are to teach others to "obey everything I have commanded you". Thus, since environmental stewardship is a command of God, we are practice it and teach it to others that we bring the Gospel to.

[nebula]

After reading through the entire thread, I have a fair idea where most are coming from.. and to refer back to the original OP, I believe what is wanted, is to know which is the most important duty for a chrisian, regarding the stewardship of the planet or the preaching the gospel concerning God's plan of redemption of souls for His coming kingdom.

Eric -

I'm still not understanding what makes this a priority issue.

Consider this - how many activities do we engage in that have nothing to do with preaching the Gospel? So why should this be any different?

(For argument's sake, let's forgo on saving the beached whale and all of that. How about what we restrict this to what you can do to clean up your community?)

[Emily~Anne]

After reading through the entire thread, I have a fair idea where most are coming from.. and to refer back to the original OP, I believe what is wanted, is to know which is the most important duty for a chrisian, regarding the stewardship of the planet or the preaching the gospel concerning God's plan of redemption of souls for His coming kingdom.

Eric -

I'm still not understanding what makes this a priority issue.

Consider this - how many activities do we engage in that have nothing to do with preaching the Gospel? So why should this be any different?

(For argument's sake, let's forgo on saving the beached whale and all of that. How about what we restrict this to what you can do to clean up your community?)

Also, let's say you are sitting in a beach chair working on your tan and a pod of whales were to be beached and in distressed and there was something you could do to help them, would you do it?

[Giaour]

bump

[Smalcald]

I wouldn't risk my skin saving a whale or any individual animal. Sure if I was there I may help. I might be interested in eating the whale if it wasn't diseased and was going to die anyway.

I consider myself a conservationist, but I am not an animal rights person, nor do I agree with most of the animal rights agenda. I got involved in conservation issues through Ducks Unlimited. Ducks taste good and are fun to hunt, but they need wetlands to survive. But the deal is you protect duck habitat and you protect a whole bunch of other ecosystems.

I think many of our concerns as Christians about the environmental movement are more about the animal rights movement, who humanize animals and believe they have rights the same way that humans do.

But forrest is correct, conserving the environment and yes opposing overdevelopment and government handouts of our public lands is not a "liberal" agenda, it is actually a conservative one.

[eric]

Neb, I'm not saying anything about not helping to clean up our community. I'm all for it. It is our community and we have as much responsibility as the unsaved to help keep it clean and tidy. I t happened a lot when we lived in a coastal town and all used to turn out and clean up the beaches after a flash flood etc, but that is local. I was born there and lived there for nearly seventy years. I was community. That's where I guess I was supposed to be at that time, but it is not the responsibility for christians to feel they are obliged to hold themseles accountable for the whole planet.

The passages that Forrest picked out of the OT were about one specific area on the map, that God was very jealous about. All this Kyoto treaty or whatever is what they call it, is too little too late. No one can blame my generation or my parents generation for todays technology and the evil that has sprung from it. when I was a kid we never heard of murder in our country and now it's a daily occurence.

Is it a christian's fault that people in Alsks or somewhere are clubbing baby seals to death or that the polar bears are running out of hunting grounds? It's a christian's duty to fear God and obey His commands as best we can in all matters pysical and spiritual and I'm glad that I'm not living anywhere within nuke range of the middle east.

Well that's my take on it........ for now