Worthy News: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton Announces White House Bid

[forrestkc]

Are you saying that our government and leaders should not try to make and/or change laws that are detrimental to human life? Then it would seem that "everyone did what was right in his own sight."

As for the war being unnecessary, I certainly wish war was unnecessary, but to remove evil men, such as Saddam Hussein, must be a blessing to the people of Iraq. Otherwise, I don't think they would have hanged him, but released him to return to power.

I am saying that in terms of politics, both liberals and conservatives have christian aspects, and both sides push agenda's that are un-Christian. We went to war with Iraq to supposedly disarm it. As we now know, Iraq did not pose a threat to us. Thus the war was unnecessary. Moreover, the death rate with the carnage now in Iraq resulting from the Civil War is three times what it was even under the murderous dictator Saddam.

[RGR]

[forrestkc]

This is absolute tripe. What we are doing in Iraq is keeping the peace. If people are being killed today, it is the result of terrorists who don't want peace. It is not that our military is causing carnage all over Iraq. If the military is doing wrong in Iraq for trying to keep the peace, then we shouldn't have police. We need to just fire them all and allow criminals, thugs and terrorists to run wild. I guess we can make it safe and legal for criminals as a whole.

Of course it is not us that are killing them, but the entire Civil War is a result of our hubris by going into Iraq in the first place. Had we never went in, granted Saddam would still probably be in power, but he would also still be contained, still be effectively disarmed, pose no real threat to us, and we would not be stuck in the middle of a civil war there. This entire war was started for ideological reasons, not out of necessity.

As a result, we would be in a much better position to deal with Iran, and we would be in a much better position to prevent Pakistan from becoming the safe haven for Al Qaeda that it has become. There is hardly anyone in the intelligence community, retired state department officials, or retired generals who does not believe that the war in Iraq was unnecessary and a strategic mistake.

[dgolvach]

Most of the farthest left leftists claim to be Christians, like the Clintons, Kerry, Pelosi, and many others, and it's obvious from their fruits that they're not.

Oh really, why would Pelosi not be a Christian? Why would Kerry not? Why would Bill Clinton not be a Christian?

Supporting the act that involves jamming a pair of scissors into a fully developed unborn baby's skull,as Obama and Hillary and Pelosi do in order for it's brains to be sucked out so it's skull will collapse, is the embodiment of evil. The act is sugar coated with the term partial birth abortion.

And the ones who survive this barbaric act are left to die in the dirty utility room in the hospital.

Wow, I don't think I have ever met anyone who was "Pro-Abortion", but I have met a good number of people who think its not any of the governments business.

You know though, I would think that getting us into an unnessisary war is not very Christian either.

Governments Business??? You mean the Government has no right to protect the most innocent and helpless amongst us??? What kind of Government is that?

Dan

[forrestkc]

Governments Business??? You mean the Government has no right to protect the most innocent and helpless amongst us??? What kind of Government is that?

Dan

That is not the question. The law views a fetus as a part of its mother until the third trimester. There are a lot of legal and constitutional questions here. At what point would we legally consider a developing fetus a person, that would be the point that which that fetus would have rights and liberties itself.

To be honest with you, this is an issue that I really don't care that much about. I suppose that if I had to articulate my position on it, it would be the one the majority of Americans hold in that Abortion ought to be safe, legal, and rare.

However, just the same, the whole insinuation that one cannot be a Christian and a Liberal is offending and absolutely absurd. All these little culture war issues that the religious right likes to use as a whipping post in total amount to only a hand full of verses in scripture. However, the poor, and helping the poor and the sick is the single most common subject in scripture, we are talking about over 2000 verses. The main reason why someone would be a liberal is out of a strong concern for the poor and the sick, justice for the oppressed, and concern for creation. Those are both liberal and Christian principles. The fact is, if Jesus walked the earth today, and said today what he said back in the Gospels, he would be painted as a peacemongering radical leftist. I am not saying he would be, but that is certainly how he would be painted by the establishment.

[dgolvach]

Isn't it funny how Marxist and Leftist Socialist have had a habit if driving out religion all together.

Dan

[forrestkc]

This is absolute tripe. What we are doing in Iraq is keeping the peace. If people are being killed today, it is the result of terrorists who don't want peace. It is not that our military is causing carnage all over Iraq. If the military is doing wrong in Iraq for trying to keep the peace, then we shouldn't have police. We need to just fire them all and allow criminals, thugs and terrorists to run wild. I guess we can make it safe and legal for criminals as a whole.

Of course it is not us that are killing them, but the entire Civil War is a result of our hubris by going into Iraq in the first place. Had we never went in, granted Saddam would still probably be in power, but he would also still be contained, still be effectively disarmed, pose no real threat to us, and we would not be stuck in the middle of a civil war there. This entire war was started for ideological reasons, not out of necessity.

As a result, we would be in a much better position to deal with Iran, and we would be in a much better position to prevent Pakistan from becoming the safe haven for Al Qaeda that it has become. There is hardly anyone in the intelligence community, retired state department officials, or retired generals who does not believe that the war in Iraq was unnecessary and a strategic mistake.

Everything you said is pure speculation. Even I have no way I knowing what the conditions would be in Iraq today had we not gone in. In addition, nobody has any way of knowing how many more 9-11 style attacks could have been carried out in America had the terrorists not been so occupied with fighting us in Iraq.

That is absurd. 95% of those we are fighting in Iraq are Iraqis, not foreign terrorists. This whole "fight them there so we don't fight them here" notion is flawed. This is not some nation with a military we are at war with. The only thing that keeps the terrorists from hitting us again is a lack of ability to do so, not because they are tied up fighting us some where. In fact, the terrorist training camps in the mountains of Pakistan are full.

[forrestkc]

Isn't it funny how Marxist and Leftist Socialist have had a habit if driving out religion all together.

Dan

Communism is at odds with religion, but not socialism. Probably a third of the world's Christians live in Latin America, and almost all of the Latin American nations are ruled by very leftist governments.

A more accurate statement would be that virtually every totalitarian regime other than the Communists mixed religion and government. There was hardly a speech that Hitler gave that was not riddled with quotes from scripture.

Even though you guys seem to have this notion that ones ideology dictates their religious beliefs, the fact is, its not true. There are conservative Christians and their are liberal Christians. There are conservative atheists and their are liberal atheists. In fact, until the Religious Right political movement of the late 70s, traditional conservatism was in many ways a magnet for atheists like Ayn Rand and the objectivist movement.

[forrestkc]

A more accurate statement is there are Christians and there are liberals that call themselves Christians. I can accept the fact that we can disagree over big government as opposed to small government and high taxes as opposed to low taxes and still be Christian, but one cannot take positions that are anti-Christ in nature such as being pro-abortion and favoring the homosexual agenda and be a true Christian. Anyone that does so to me is Christian in name only.

I am a Civil Libertarian, thus I do not believe that the government should be used as a vehicle to promote, endorse, or compel others to adhere to my specific religious beliefs. My position (and that of the constitutions), is that your rights to live your life the way you choose to live your life extends so far as to not impede another individuals ability to do the same.

It is not a question of whether someone thinks that religious institutions ought to recognize same sex marriage or not, it is a question of whether one thinks that the government has any business being involved in the matter. It is not a question of what I think about abortion, but rather whether I think the government has any business being involved.

You may disagree those positions and thus believe that the government ought to be more authoritarian. That is fine, it is not my position though. Personally, I would certainly discourage someone from getting an abortion. However, I feel that the best way to do so is to have less unwanted pregnancies. If you did not have any unwanted pregnancies, you would not have any abortions. All that getting the government involved accomplishes is a woman getting some back alley abortion instead, or a child being raised in a home that does not want them.

I would have a hard time being a member of a parish that married same sex couples, I just don't think its any business of the governments.

The fact is, I think morality ought to be a choice, not something that is legislated.

You may disagree, thats fine. We disagree.

[chapmac]

Isn\'t it funny how Marxist and Leftist Socialist have had a habit if driving out religion all together.

Dan

Communism is at odds with religion, but not socialism. Probably a third of the world\'s Christians live in Latin America, and almost all of the Latin American nations are ruled by very leftist governments.

A more accurate statement would be that virtually every totalitarian regime other than the Communists mixed religion and government. There was hardly a speech that Hitler gave that was not riddled with quotes from scripture.

Even though you guys seem to have this notion that ones ideology dictates their religious beliefs, the fact is, its not true. There are conservative Christians and their are liberal Christians. There are conservative atheists and their are liberal atheists. In fact, until the Religious Right political movement of the late 70s, traditional conservatism was in many ways a magnet for atheists like Ayn Rand and the objectivist movement.

A more accurate statement is there are Christians and there are liberals that call themselves Christians. I can accept the fact that we can disagree over big government as opposed to small government and high taxes as opposed to low taxes and still be Christian, but one cannot take positions that are anti-Christ in nature such as being pro-abortion and favoring the homosexual agenda and be a true Christian. Anyone that does so to me is Christian in name only.

whats really funny to me is how its typically the people who have never set foot on foreign soil much less spent one single day in a uniform in the service that are the fastest to share their expertise on foreign natons and other religions

same people usually are the ones to scream the loudest and most often about whose a real christian and who isnt

get back to me when you have actually been in iraq served one day in the military and most important have passed a single day without sinning