President Hillary?

[Eliyahuw]

Please define "baby" in your terms.

If God Knew me before He knit me in my Mothers womb, then that meant I existed to God even before I was a fetus.....before I humanly existed.

I think once the sperm and egg meet , that is now physical evidence of humanity....a baby.

Wait a second. Doesn't the Bible usually equate breath with life, thus from a biblical perspective, life does not begin until the baby takes its first breath and thus the point of ensoulment is when a baby takes its first breath?

I am just saying, your statement opens up a lot of issues. For example, what is the level of brain development needed for ensoulment to occur? Or is that a determinate factor, if not, can just a handful of cells in a petri dish possess a soul already?

In the very least, life begins when a fetus is 21 days old. I believe at conception but the closest the bible gets to it is the following:

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

Souls are created by two coming together and joining as one and conception taking place. A part of each persons soul comes together as one and creates a new individual being.

People do not get their spirit until they are saved. When God created adam, he created him with a body and soul and breathed in him the breath of life or spirit of God.

When Adam sinned he died, his spirit left him. When Christ Died, he brought us back that breath of life.

As far as killing babies being inflamatory as one post suggested. Good. It ought to be inflamatory as it is Murder! One of those pesky laws God wrote you know, Thou shalt not murder.

[forrestkc]

Wait a second. Doesn't the Bible usually equate breath with life, thus from a biblical perspective, life does not begin until the baby takes its first breath and thus the point of ensoulment is when a baby takes its first breath?

I am just saying, your statement opens up a lot of issues. For example, what is the level of brain development needed for ensoulment to occur? Or is that a determinate factor, if not, can just a handful of cells in a petri dish possess a soul already?

Well, please tell me, if it's not alive, a life, how can it grow in the womb?

Alive yes. However, in terms of when a baby gets a soul, no one really knows but God. My point is that while I think that most everyone is in agreement that a fetus viable outside the womb is fully human and thus has a soul, I think that saying a handful of cells having a soul would be a pretty minority view in Christianity. I am just saying, its a complicated subject, a lot of grey than black and white.

The other way of looking at it, is that does a handful of cells in a petri dish have the same rights and deserve the same level of protection in our society that a new born baby does?

[forrestkc]

Souls are created by two coming together and joining as one and conception taking place. A part of each persons soul comes together as one and creates a new individual being.

This part of your post is pure heresy. You are implying that humans create souls. Our soul's our a product of God, not of our parents.

Ecclesiastes 12:7

And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the life breath returns to God who gave it.

Hebrews 12:9

"Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?"

[sweetycakes]

Glad I'm not American!

I don't think I'd like to vote for any of the new candidates myself.

Personally, I think I'd prefer Bush to stay in office for a while longer.

[forrestkc]

Glad I'm not American!

I don't think I'd like to vote for any of the new candidates myself.

Personally, I think I'd prefer Bush to stay in office for a while longer.

The nice thing about how it works for the PM in the UK is that you are pretty much guaranteed to get one who can string a coherent sentence together unscripted.

[sweetycakes]

Glad I'm not American!

I don't think I'd like to vote for any of the new candidates myself.

Personally, I think I'd prefer Bush to stay in office for a while longer.

The nice thing about how it works for the PM in the UK is that you are pretty much guaranteed to get one who can string a coherent sentence together unscripted.

That may be so. Tony Blair may be articulate, but has he got our best interests at heart?

White man speak with forked tongue

[kat8585]

Alive yes. However, in terms of when a baby gets a soul, no one really knows but God. My point is that while I think that most everyone is in agreement that a fetus viable outside the womb is fully human and thus has a soul, I think that saying a handful of cells having a soul would be a pretty minority view in Christianity. I am just saying, its a complicated subject, a lot of grey than black and white.

The other way of looking at it, is that does a handful of cells in a petri dish have the same rights and deserve the same level of protection in our society that a new born baby does?

Well, what is it til it becomes a human life--a cabbage? Why does it have to have a soul before it becomes a human life? Have you checked your signature lately? "You don't have a soul, you are a soul." This is true. You also called it a baby before it gets a soul in your post.

And yes, that handful of cells in the petri dish does have the same rights.

[Eliyahuw]

Souls are created by two coming together and joining as one and conception taking place. A part of each persons soul comes together as one and creates a new individual being.

This part of your post is pure heresy. You are implying that humans create souls. Our soul's our a product of God, not of our parents.

I am not implying. I am stating that is where souls come from.

Souls are not spirits.

Soul basically is our mind, emotions, memories, things we learn, life.

Spirit is christ living in us. were born spiritually dead.

The "soul" and the "spirit" are similar in the manner in which they are used in the spiritual life of the believer. They are different in their reference. The "soul" is man's horizontal view with the world. The "spirit" is man's vertical view with God. It is important to understand that both refer to the immaterial part of man, but only the "spirit" refers to the man's walk with God. The "soul" refers to man's walk in the world, both material and immaterial.

Ecclesiastes 12:7

And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the life breath returns to God who gave it.

Breath of life is our spirit of which is only given to those who are saved. IF you die in unbelief, your body turns to dust, your soul goes to hell.

If you die in christ, your spirit and soul will go to heaven.

Look at it this way, your body is a glass a container. Your soul is water. The spirit is wine. IF you take 1 ounch of red wine and pour into water, you will see it permeate every molecule of that water turning it all red. THus its becomes the water.

The soul is that water. By itself it is just water or in our case sin. Christ or the wine, enters our life and takes over our soul and mixes with it and permeates every part of our soul. Thus integrating it.

Heresy? Not at all. No where even near it

Edited February 11, 2007 by Eliyahuw

[kat8585]

Alive yes. However, in terms of when a baby gets a soul, no one really knows but God. My point is that while I think that most everyone is in agreement that a fetus viable outside the womb is fully human and thus has a soul, I think that saying a handful of cells having a soul would be a pretty minority view in Christianity. I am just saying, its a complicated subject, a lot of grey than black and white.

The other way of looking at it, is that does a handful of cells in a petri dish have the same rights and deserve the same level of protection in our society that a new born baby does?

Well, what is it til it becomes a human life--a cabbage? Why does it have to have a soul before it becomes a human life? Have you checked your signature lately? "You don't have a soul, you are a soul." This is true. You also called it a baby before it gets a soul in your post.

And yes, that handful of cells in the petri dish does have the same rights.

Forrest??

[forrestkc]

Alive yes. However, in terms of when a baby gets a soul, no one really knows but God. My point is that while I think that most everyone is in agreement that a fetus viable outside the womb is fully human and thus has a soul, I think that saying a handful of cells having a soul would be a pretty minority view in Christianity. I am just saying, its a complicated subject, a lot of grey than black and white.

The other way of looking at it, is that does a handful of cells in a petri dish have the same rights and deserve the same level of protection in our society that a new born baby does?

Well, what is it til it becomes a human life--a cabbage? Why does it have to have a soul before it becomes a human life? Have you checked your signature lately? "You don't have a soul, you are a soul." This is true. You also called it a baby before it gets a soul in your post.

And yes, that handful of cells in the petri dish does have the same rights.

Forrest??

I don't think we are going to agree, because I don't think a handful of cells in a petri dish is the same thing as a new born baby. Its a possible future human life, but not a human yet. That would be basic biology there.