ELECTION or FREE WILL

[larryt]

Been away for a while and have been studying the doctrine of election. This seems to have been one of the more important doctrines of the past but is not taught in the church to the extent it was previously. Just curious as to what some of you think. Let's try to keep our discussions civil.

Thank you.

LT

[Floatingaxe]

I couldn't have been saved unless I believed.

[firehill]

Common now, both answers are equally correct though one follows the other. The first is a matter of choice and the second is God's divine choosing of those who chose to follow him, like Jesus.

[firehill]

Common now, both answers are equally correct though one follows the other. The first is a matter of choice and the second is God's divine choosing of those who chose to follow him, like Jesus.

If you believe both are correct, aren't you in essence saying you believe the second choice is correct?

Only ultimately, yes, but not absolutely.

If I understand you right, you are saying that God chose us to be saved, and therefore we believe?

No. We choose Christ and therefore God chooses us. We choose to believe and therefore God chooses us to be saved as His sheep he came to find.

If not, what am I missing here? If so, do you consider yourself a believer in the original doctrine of Calvin? I am not asking you because I want to argue, but just for clarification?

I use to be concerned about Calvin and tulip. I could care less now especialy since after un-indoctrinating myself, I know that I chose whether or not to serve God, and God chooses me in effect, through Christ ofcourse.

[epainos]

How can you be saved if at first you dont believe, that would also be like being saved with no faith. How can we be saved if we dont have faith in Jesus? Believing is the beginning! God does have plans set for us if we come to the point of believing then His plan can get put into motion, but we all have freewill to choose Him or not.

[Zceiv]

Im saved because I beleive. but it was God who gave me the will to repent.

It doesnt matter if you beleive you have to repent. Even the demons beleive in jesus

[eric]

I was saved because I believed after my encounter with Christ and was given the ability and the option to choose. If you are chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world, then there would be no reason to repent..........would there??

[Guest Biblicist]

You forgot one, all of the above. . .

[eric]

Hi there Truster. I have copied and pasted a commentry that I found in crosswalk that referring to the chapter of Ephesians, you mentioned in one of your posts. It's worth considering it contains the clause* from the foundations of the earth*

I would like to know your opinion on it.

3-6. Blessed be the God. The word rendered "blessed" is one from which our word eulogize is derived. It means, therefore, primarily, to praise. "Praised be the God," etc., gives the idea. Who hath blessed us. The blessed is here from the same root. The word means, as above, "to praise," or to "speak" good things of one; then to "speak" good things to, or bestow blessings, as a secondary meaning. This is the meaning here. With all spiritual blessings. All came from God, and he has withheld none from those in Christ. In the heavenly. In the kingdom of heaven. 4. According as. "Even as," in Revision. Chosen us in him before the foundation of the world. This does not affirm that God chose some individuals and rejected others, but that before the world was, before there was Jew or Gentile, God chose to have a people for himself, the whole church of Christ, a covenant people confined to no one earthly race. Holy and without blame. God chose them that they might be holy. Holiness is the proof that a church is a chosen church. 5. Having predestinated us. Foreordained that we, the church of Jesus Christ, should be adopted as his children. The whole line of argument is general instead of particular. God foreordained a church which should be composed of those adopted as his children. According to the pleasure of his will. The act of predestination was due simply to God's sovereign will. His will was the cause. 6. To the praise of the glory of his grace. To the end that his grace in adopting us as children may redound to his praise and glory. In the beloved. In Christ. See Matt.

I can give you the url if you wish, but I will have to go back and find it again.

cheers.

[larryt]

As I stated in my OP I have been studying this topic quite extensively for the past several months. In Eph. 1:3-5 Paul tells us that we are blessed with ALL/EVERYTHING the spiritual blessings in Christ. That we WERE chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. And that we WERE predestinated us UNTO the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself.

Eph 1:3