Can one not sin?

[forrestkc]

This sort of came up in another thread and I thought it deserved its own thread. Basically, I made the following statement:

We cannot keep from sinning no matter what we do. We are all unworthy of redemption no matter what we do. Even if we were strapped to a chair our entire lives where we could never physically sin, our hearts would still betray us, our thoughts still riddled with sin. It is simply the nature of man. Anyone who claims they can control their thoughts and not sin in their hearts is a liar.

This is why we are saved through grace, not our works.

Some others asserted that one can be free from sin, even in their thoughts. Personally, I don't think so. For example, every sunday, during the liturgy at church, we say the following prayer:

Most merciful God,

we confess that we have sinned against you

in thought, word, and deed,

by what we have done,

and by what we have left undone.

We have not loved you with our whole heart;

we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.

We are truly sorry and we humbly repent.

For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,

have mercy on us and forgive us;

that we may delight in your will,

and walk in your ways,

to the glory of your Name. Amen.

I cant think of a single day of my life when I did not sin against God at least in my thoughts, thus I cannot think of a single moment that a prayer like that would not apply to me personally. I am interested to see what others think on this subject.

[apothanein kerdos]

Right, because we're humans and fallen, it is impossible to go a day without sin. I thought that was just accepted?

[forrestkc]

Right, because we're humans and fallen, it is impossible to go a day without sin. I thought that was just accepted?

It is evidently not just universally accepted. That is what surprised me.

[mikado5001]

I see your point there. I agree with it 100%. I once thought that if someone was born via artificial insemination. That that child was not born in sin. Since original sin was not commited. I know now that I was wrong on that one.

[apothanein kerdos]

The days where you think you don't sin are generally the days where you've offended God the most.

[nebula]

forrest -

The problem is in the context within which this discussion came up.

As for the prayer, some of us have found it more expedient to pray repentance as we become aware of sin in our lives, to deal with it on the spot, rather than go about our way and repeat a generalized prayer hoping that our thoughts and actions will change but taking no responsibility for our sin.

See the difference?

[Emily~Anne]

I read that thread and you were only partially disagreed with from what I saw. The gist that needs to be understood is that yes, we are not worthy of being redeemed of our sins and we have an amazing gift in our Redeemer. This does not mean however we should not even try to live righteously. And we should not look to ourselves to determine what is righteous, we need to look to God and give up our own thoughts and ideas of what is good and trust in God. (Read my siggy)

Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin

[Iryssa]

This sort of came up in another thread and I thought it deserved its own thread. Basically, I made the following statement:

We cannot keep from sinning no matter what we do. We are all unworthy of redemption no matter what we do. Even if we were strapped to a chair our entire lives where we could never physically sin, our hearts would still betray us, our thoughts still riddled with sin. It is simply the nature of man. Anyone who claims they can control their thoughts and not sin in their hearts is a liar.

This is why we are saved through grace, not our works.

Some others asserted that one can be free from sin, even in their thoughts. Personally, I don't think so. For example, every sunday, during the liturgy at church, we say the following prayer:

Most merciful God,

we confess that we have sinned against you

in thought, word, and deed,

by what we have done,

and by what we have left undone.

We have not loved you with our whole heart;

we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.

We are truly sorry and we humbly repent.

For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,

have mercy on us and forgive us;

that we may delight in your will,

and walk in your ways,

to the glory of your Name. Amen.

I cant think of a single day of my life when I did not sin against God at least in my thoughts, thus I cannot think of a single moment that a prayer like that would not apply to me personally. I am interested to see what others think on this subject.

I have to say that the general confession is one of my favourite parts of the Anglican/Episcopal service. Our lay ministers always allow us a few moments to contemplate and silently confess specific sins, too. I feel it makes me more ready to hear what God has to say to me during the rest of the service.

I also can't think of a single day of my life when I didn't sin...maybe there was sometime before I can remember (you know, as an infant) but other than that, I can't say that I've ever had a day without some sin.

The days where you think you don't sin are generally the days where you've offended God the most.

I agree there...sometimes I'll look back after I've had one of those days and think "oh boy, that was arrogant of me, wasn't it?"

[forrestkc]

forrest -

The problem is in the context within which this discussion came up.

As for the prayer, some of us have found it more expedient to pray repentance as we become aware of sin in our lives, to deal with it on the spot, rather than go about our way and repeat a generalized prayer hoping that our thoughts and actions will change but taking no responsibility for our sin.

See the difference?

That was not my point though. Nor was I even implying that. I gave that prayer because I thought it was pretty much applicable to any of us. I did not imply that everyone should say that prayer every Sunday. I always try to ask for forgiveness as I sin. I don't just put it off until Sunday. However, some made the claim that one can be free of sin, and not sin. So I was wondering how many on here actually believed that.

[forrestkc]

I read that thread and you were only partially disagreed with from what I saw. The gist that needs to be understood is that yes, we are not worthy of being redeemed of our sins and we have an amazing gift in our Redeemer. This does not mean however we should not even try to live righteously. And we should not look to ourselves to determine what is righteous, we need to look to God and give up our own thoughts and ideas of what is good and trust in God. (Read my siggy)

No where did I imply or claim that we should not try to keep from sinning. I merely pointed out that it is simply the human condition that we will always sin in thought or deed no matter what we do, and thus we are incapable of redeeming ourselves. Would you disagree with that?