Can one not sin?

[Emily~Anne]

I read that thread and you were only partially disagreed with from what I saw. The gist that needs to be understood is that yes, we are not worthy of being redeemed of our sins and we have an amazing gift in our Redeemer. This does not mean however we should not even try to live righteously. And we should not look to ourselves to determine what is righteous, we need to look to God and give up our own thoughts and ideas of what is good and trust in God. (Read my siggy)

No where did I imply or claim that we should not try to keep from sinning. I merely pointed out that it is simply the human condition that we will always sin in thought or deed no matter what we do, and thus we are incapable of redeeming ourselves. Would you disagree with that?

I don't disagree, it was the context that you originally presented your argument in. As Nebula said:

But what do we do with those thoughts? Dwell on them . . . or cast them down? Enjoy them, or submit them to Christ?

And let me share something kinda embaressing, I used to have dreams of men other than my husband. I would wake up horrified of such a sinful dream, and felt even to dream that was sinful. I acknowldeged this, repented, and asked God to shield me from those dreams and only allow dreams of my husband. Sure enough I now only dream of my husband, except once in a great while, but I have been able to wake up instantly and repent and once again ask God to guard my dreams. Perhaps this is to keep me reminded that I depend on God ALONE to keep my focus on what is pure and without him I would have no chance at all. God has the power! Keeps us humble.

Forrest, how do you manage to get me to share such embaressing things???

[Masked Chris]

1 John 8-10

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

hope that helps we can never be without sin until the coming of Christ and the day we are tranformed. Anyone who claims to be sin free is a lyier..... even the "great and mighty and holy" people on TV who seem to show that they are without sin.... they are as guilty as we are.

[Masked Chris]

The days where you think you don't sin are generally the days where you've offended God the most.

deep I've found this to be true in my life.... on these days I am much to prideful to see my sin.... but I'm already guilty sence pride is a sin in itself... there's no escaping our fallen state until Christ comes... it's one of our sufferings in this life.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Masked Chris

[nebula]

That was not my point though. Nor was I even implying that. I gave that prayer because I thought it was pretty much applicable to any of us. I did not imply that everyone should say that prayer every Sunday. I always try to ask for forgiveness as I sin. I don't just put it off until Sunday. However, some made the claim that one can be free of sin, and not sin. So I was wondering how many on here actually believed that.

This is a bit tricky, but there's a fine line between defining yourself as a sinner or as a redeemed person. Sure, we struggle with sin, and we constantly have to guard against sin, and we still have weeds in our hearts (to use and analogy) that need to be constantly pulled until the root is finally killed. On the other hand, once you have been washed by the blood of Christ, does the Lord still regard you as a sinner?

So, depending on your perspective, you can be "freed" from sin in the aspect that we are no longer in bondage to sin (see Romans for the explanation of this); and according to Jesus in Rev. 2-3, sin can be overcome (else He would not commend those who "overcome"). This does not negate your capacity to sin, nor that you still have sin habits and all of that. But if God does give the command to "be holy as He is holy," wouldn't that mean it is a goal He believes we are capable of?

For perspective, can you name the specific sins you committed today? Or yesterday? (You don't have to say them, but at least to your own understanding, can you?)

For another perspective, do you believe God still regards you as a sinner?

Again, it isn't to deny that we are freed from the struggle of sin and all that. Nor does it deny that we can't put ourselves in bondage to sin again by the choices we make. To say we are without sin is to deceive ourselves. However, thinking that sin can't be overcome is likewise unbiblical. (Granted, I can't judge the meaning of intent behind the poster's words you refer to, but this is how I understand it, anyway.)

[nebula]

No where did I imply or claim that we should not try to keep from sinning. I merely pointed out that it is simply the human condition that we will always sin in thought or deed no matter what we do, and thus we are incapable of redeeming ourselves. Would you disagree with that?

To use an analogy, sin is like weeds in a garden. We will always have to pull them. But there are some weeds that can be completely eliminated (ie. the ones that live as a root system - kill the root, kill the weed problem). As long as you keep working the soil of your heart in knowledge and grace of the Lord and spiritual discipline and continually seeking His face, it will be more difficult for the seeds to take root and the roots to grow.

No, we cannot redeem ourselves. But having been redeemed through Christ, He gives us the power to overcome. Salvation from sin is more than just getting into Heaven, you know?

[forrestkc]

For perspective, can you name the specific sins you committed today? Or yesterday? (You don't have to say them, but at least to your own understanding, can you?)

Not all of them no. That is why it is important to ask for forgiveness for both specific sins and general sin.

For another perspective, do you believe God still regards you as a sinner?

Of course.

Again, it isn't to deny that we are freed from the struggle of sin and all that. Nor does it deny that we can't put ourselves in bondage to sin again by the choices we make. To say we are without sin is to deceive ourselves. However, thinking that sin can't be overcome is likewise unbiblical. (Granted, I can't judge the meaning of intent behind the poster's words you refer to, but this is how I understand it, anyway.)

The bible talks about persevering and fighting against sinful actions and thoughts. However, I can't think of anything in scripture that would indicate that man is capable of not sinning at all. If we were capable of that, then there would be no need for grace, we could simply persevere long enough, and fight hard enough, to redeem ourselves through our works.

With God's help, one can overcome specific sins. For example, with God's help, one can overcome drug dependence. However, one cannot simply prevent themselves from ever sinning again in thought or deed.

The reason why I bought this up is that someone stated that they go some days without sinning at all.

[LossForWords]

I see your point there. I agree with it 100%. I once thought that if someone was born via artificial insemination. That that child was not born in sin. Since original sin was not commited. I know now that I was wrong on that one.

Ok...I'll be the one to laugh at this one. That's heeeelarious. I had never in my life gone deep enough into my thoughts on conception and original sin to even have that cross my mind! Ahhhh ha ha ha ha.

[nebula]

For another perspective, do you believe God still regards you as a sinner?

Of course.

OK, now this train of thought can be just as destructive as thinking you are incapable of sinning.

Romans 6

2b How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

2 Cor 5:21 - For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Ephesians 1:4 - just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Hebrews 8:12 - For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

[forrestkc]

For another perspective, do you believe God still regards you as a sinner?

Of course.

OK, now this train of thought can be just as destructive as thinking you are incapable of sinning.

Romans 6

2b How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

2 Cor 5:21 - For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Ephesians 1:4 - just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Hebrews 8:12 - For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

Forgiven yes. However, God knows we sin. I am not sure what you are getting at?

[nebula]

Forgiven yes. However, God knows we sin. I am not sure what you are getting at?

It means God considers you holy and righteous through Christ in His sight.