N. Korea Agrees to Nuclear Disarmament

[ted]

...And when the money runs out (ie. When the N. Kor. gov't sucks the funds dry to fund its military and bleed its people dry) the program starts back up again.

Yeah. It's nothing but blackmail.

But what are our choices? It seems that either we offer them some incentives to not continue the program or we just let them build more.

Isn't that a little like "Either we give the armed robber what he wants or he'll just get a bigger gun"?

Seems to me that we should entertain the thought of arresting the robber one day, instead of continually giving our stuff over to him time and again.

I know, I know.....a strawman.

t.

[Ovedya]

...And when the money runs out (ie. When the N. Kor. gov't sucks the funds dry to fund its military and bleed its people dry) the program starts back up again.

Yeah. It's nothing but blackmail.

But what are our choices? It seems that either we offer them some incentives to not continue the program or we just let them build more.

The international community - especially China - should have completely shut N. Korea off. The most severe sanctions on any country in history. Eventually they would have suffocated.

[forrestkc]

Isn't that a little like "Either we give the armed robber what he wants or he'll just get a bigger gun"?

Seems to me that we should entertain the thought of arresting the robber one day, instead of continually giving our stuff over to him time and again.

I know, I know.....a strawman.

t.

Yeah, the problem is that all of our police are in Iraq. Moreover, while China does not want a nuclear North Korea, they also don't want a war in their backyard and I think its safe to say that we do not want a war with China or for China to quit floating our debt. Also, that last war on the Korean peninsula did not go very well.

The quickest way for the United States to fall like every other great civilization is for us to up and quit talking to any of our enemies and up and go to war with all of them. Kim Jong-il is 64, he is bound to up and die in the next 10 or 15 years anyway.

[forrestkc]

...And when the money runs out (ie. When the N. Kor. gov't sucks the funds dry to fund its military and bleed its people dry) the program starts back up again.

Yeah. It's nothing but blackmail.

But what are our choices? It seems that either we offer them some incentives to not continue the program or we just let them build more.

The international community - especially China - should have completely shut N. Korea off. The most severe sanctions on any country in history. Eventually they would have suffocated.

Sanctions have worked in so far as containment goes, but I can't think of a single time they resulted in a regime change. I mean look at Cuba. North Korea is the most insular regime on earth, Kim Jong il would watch his whole nation starve to death before he lost any face by giving in to sanctions.

[ted]

Isn't that a little like "Either we give the armed robber what he wants or he'll just get a bigger gun"?

Seems to me that we should entertain the thought of arresting the robber one day, instead of continually giving our stuff over to him time and again.

I know, I know.....a strawman.

t.

Yeah, the problem is that all of our police are in Iraq. Moreover, while China does not want a nuclear North Korea, they also don't want a war in their backyard and I think its safe to say that we do not want a war with China or for China to quit floating our debt. Also, that last war on the Korean peninsula did not go very well.

The quickest way for the United States to fall like every other great civilization is for us to up and quit talking to any of our enemies and up and go to war with all of them. Kim Jong-il is 64, he is bound to up and die in the next 10 or 15 years anyway.

Yeah, I have to agree that our police are kinda tied up right now, and I have a strange feeling that our calls to neighboring departments would go unheeded....

Ok, I'll quit with the analogies.

Actually, the Korean War went rather well, after we finally got the right number of troops and equipment to deal with the initial charge, and then later, the Chinese entrance to the war. MacArthur had things well in hand and was about to charge the Chinese front door when he was canned. I guess that was a good thing for the time, but that's when things got "iffy".

Turns out we had to settle for a draw because of the move.

I also agree that we should attempt one on one negotiations with them to try and resolve the matter. It's what they have wanted for over 50 years now. That's not saying that we have to give them anything they ask for, but we should, at this point, at least show them that we can sit down and listen to their requests. If that fails, then we can at least say that we tried everything.

I really thought that China would dump NK after the fall of communism, but they have retained operational control over it. I guess they like the buffer between us in the ROK, and them right above NK. Perhaps if we were to offer to take all troops out of the south, China would entertain the thought of removing the current regime in the north, and we can all go home for a while? With the various ways that we have to project military power anywhere in the world these days, we really don't need to keep troops there anyway.

All it would take would be the trust between the US and China for both of us to stay out of an eventual unification, and it might work.

But, could we trust each other enough for both of us to keep our hands off of a unified Korea?

I also agree that we don't want war with China. we would have to fight it with 50% of our hands tied behind our back (the liberal hands, that is), and I'm afraid that we couldn't make up the difference.

t.

[Ovedya]

...And when the money runs out (ie. When the N. Kor. gov't sucks the funds dry to fund its military and bleed its people dry) the program starts back up again.

Yeah. It's nothing but blackmail.

But what are our choices? It seems that either we offer them some incentives to not continue the program or we just let them build more.

The international community - especially China - should have completely shut N. Korea off. The most severe sanctions on any country in history. Eventually they would have suffocated.

Sanctions have worked in so far as containment goes, but I can't think of a single time they resulted in a regime change. I mean look at Cuba. North Korea is the most insular regime on earth, Kim Jong il would watch his whole nation starve to death before he lost any face by giving in to sanctions.

Well, I think that containment would have only been one part of a short-term or long-term plan to support regime change through rebellion. I'm not much for thinking through things like this. Seems to me, though, that eventually the N. Koreans would get sick of all the starvation and poor living qualities that t here would be an uprising. Such an uprising could be supported by the U.S.

[RustyAngeL]

Ok, I'm not the most brilliant political analyst here (by far), so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this blackmail? I mean, N. Korea misbehaves and they say they'll stop misbehaving if we agree to give them a bunch of money. Isn't that kind of like negotiating with terrorists? At the very least, it sounds like giving in to a spoiled brat. If the "child" learns that this works, then what is to keep the "child" from doing it again, only making higher demands? And, if this "child" gets away with it, will it not encourage the "other children" to follow suit? Am I missing something here?

This is not Elementary School. Would you rather give them a bunch of money, or have them continue to build more Atomic Weapons?

Do you actually believe that N.Korea is going to keep their word?

[forrestkc]

Well, I think that containment would have only been one part of a short-term or long-term plan to support regime change through rebellion. I'm not much for thinking through things like this. Seems to me, though, that eventually the N. Koreans would get sick of all the starvation and poor living qualities that t here would be an uprising. Such an uprising could be supported by the U.S.

They will probably never rise up against Kim Jong il, he is a culture of personality there much like Mao was in China. They worship him in NK like a God.

[forrestkc]

Ok, I'm not the most brilliant political analyst here (by far), so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this blackmail? I mean, N. Korea misbehaves and they say they'll stop misbehaving if we agree to give them a bunch of money. Isn't that kind of like negotiating with terrorists? At the very least, it sounds like giving in to a spoiled brat. If the "child" learns that this works, then what is to keep the "child" from doing it again, only making higher demands? And, if this "child" gets away with it, will it not encourage the "other children" to follow suit? Am I missing something here?

This is not Elementary School. Would you rather give them a bunch of money, or have them continue to build more Atomic Weapons?

Do you actually believe that N.Korea is going to keep their word?

I believe we have few other options.

[Leonard]

Seems to me last time we accepted North Korean promises re their nuclear program, THEY LIED!

Fool me once........

Seems to me I've heard this song (and dance) before.

And our other options are?

Uh.....let me think long and hard here. Oh this is going to take soooooo long!

No, wait! I've got it! Don't deal with this bloody regime AT ALL. Tell those who do, that WE will scale back our dealings with their countries. Impose a blockade that lets nothing but food, heating oil and clothing in.

Well, maybe you're right Forrest: Every time they want something we should just give up immediately and acquiesce to this murderous, lying bloodsucker. You want us just to give them whatever they want, and you still want us to NOT believe you are a dedicated Marxist!

You are becoming ludicrous. I could not even write satire about you, because nothing I could suggest is more absurd than the positions you actually propose!