Drinking

[Giaour]

It is only filth when abused.

Ah. sorry, I misunderstood then. You didnt make that distinction...

Thats what happens when you dont read the entire thread.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

Every alcoholic took their first drink. The problem is, the alcohilic can't stop. You don't know til it's too late. I believe drinking is a sin. All I've ever seen it do is cost money and destroy lives and marriages, not to mention kill people. The money spent could better be used in the Lord's work.

Do you think smoking is a sin?

Yes. Like alcohol, all it does is cost a lot of money, and kill you--slow suicide. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and therefore not to be poisoned by this filth. It's so expensive I don't see how anyone could even afford it. Both my daughters smoked at one time, and it caused great hardship financially. I've seen my daughter put food for her kids back at the grocery store so she could buy cigarettes.

Interesting, thanks for the response.

I'm gonna bite though..

What do you think about perscription medications, coffee and soda? Caffeine is not as addictive as nicotine, but the body does get used to it, and there is a withdrawl aspect involved in giving it up if you are a heavy soda/coffee drinker. And soda and coffee are certaintly not healthy for you!

Perscription medication and even over the counter stuff like Tylenol (I think I spelled that incorrectly) are mood-enhancing drugs that 'numb' your ability to feel pain, and can also lead to addictions if taken too often. All of these things also cost quite a bit of money over time, money that could best be used to help others.

Would you consider these things sinful products as well? I'm interested in where you draw the line.

Coffee and soda have their poisons, too. I don't recommend taking prescriptions unless it's a last resort. Every, and I mean every, medication has side effects, some as deadly as the condition it's supposed to be treating. I'm not sure they should be considered "sinful", unless someone is addicted to them, but natural methods are much better.

From what it sounds like to me, you view the addiction of something as a sin. I agree. However I don't think that the usage of such things, be it coffee, soda, medication, smoking or alcohol, is necessarily sinful. The sin for me is the abuse of such things, not the act or using them.

[RedeemedByHim]

I was wondering what your views on drinking are. I've heard many times from people that drinking is not a sin, only if you get drunk its a sin so you have to make sure you know when to stop and control your self. Is this true? I'll admit,Ive dranked a few times..but not to get drunk, just a glass of wine (wine coolers and such) here and there but Ive never been drunk. People tell me Jesus drank wine all the time when they drink,does that make it ok? I have some friends who are very heavy drinkers. Any help would be great.

I don't think that drinking in moderation is ok. But if there is a history in a person's life of alcoholism, I would not drink. I used to be a drug addict and alcoholic. I would not drink now because I know that I can't control it. I have tried since becoming a Christian. I get caught up in the reasons why I used to drink. But then you have to ask the question what kind of witness that is putting off to others. Sure, you might not think it is sin to drink socially, but many non-believers will condemn you the minute they see you pick up a drink. They may not know that you only drink socially. What is more important, Not being a stumbling block? or having that occasional drink? Just my views.

[Axxman]

2 topics on drinking is making me dizzy.

We can certainly agree on that. I'll stick with the compelling convo we have already established.

[Axxman]

yeah, I can post scripture too, friend.

1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

Your passage does not prohibit and mine proves it is permissible to use wine.

deal with it.

Cool, you post it...I'll explain it.

Question for ya. When Solomon wrote

[7thseal]

I read the other thread but I'm not able to post there because not having enough post.

I use to drink...starting at the age of 10...quit when I turned 21 because of the drunkenness. At 26 I thought drinking wine would be fine but the drunkenness returned once again so I quit all together and don't want any part of it.

I believe that if one is drinking and waking up with bloodshot eyes and needing to sleep it off then that person is seriously hindering the working of the Holy Spirit in their life. But if one can consume to a point and not be drunk then its their freewill to do so.

God knows our heart intentions in whatever we choose to do and He alone will judge us in the end.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

Everything in moderation!

[Artemus Prime]

Moderation, rather than inebriation,....unless one has alcoholism running rampant in one's family, or anything medically related, there is no problem...

[Axxman]

Moderation, rather than inebriation,....unless one has alcoholism running rampant in one's family, or anything medically related, there is no problem...

"Moderation" is NOT a biblical principle. The ideology of "moderation" was developed by liberal christians who desired an excuse for their dabbling in worldliness.

[Axxman]

Interesting that you accuse someone of being liberal when the facts show that you must levy the same against His disciples and apostles who did partake of wine.

Moderation IS a biblical principle whether you agree or not. Your approval or acceptance is simply not required in this.

"Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

"not given to MUCH wine".....moderation, no?

If you say that is 'grape juice' then you must now explain the reason for this 'holy' woman to not be given to 'much' grape juice.

A complete absurdity. There would be no reason for any holy person to restrict their intake of coolaid.

It makes no sense for aged women to be told to "be moderate" in their use of alcohol...unless you believe there is no such condition on younger women. Furthermore, why didn't he give permission to older men to drink wine in "moderation?" If all these people were drinking wine on a daily basis (as some of you claim) then these random entries that people use to permit its use, seem oddly out of place. Are women suddenly higher up the food-chain than deacons...who are forbidden to drink? What about Timothy? This guy suffers from stomach ailments and yet Paul still feels the need to offer permission to drink "a little" for medicinal purposes. Too bad Timothy wasn't an aged woman...he wouldn't have had all these problems.

This is clearly not a permission to drink alcohol moderately. The word "much" is only used in Titus and Timothy. If non-alcoholic grape juice is intended in Timothy and Titus, the intent of the qualification shifts from the level of intoxication to the matter of gluttony. This brings us to the issue of "self-control" which also neatly ties in with what Titus 2:4 tells us older women are to teach younger women. Younger women are to be taught self-control and purity...there is NO WAY you can tie in the moderate use of alcoholic beverages in the context.

Christians have been taught to wear blinders on their eyes in regards to the word "wine" in the bible. The word "oinos" is such a broad word. It is not acceptable to narrow the word down to one simple meaning based on what the word means in today's language. Paul could have JUST AS EASILY been referring to over-eating in regards to older women since oinos also could mean raisins or ... *gasp*...grapes!

Edited March 1, 2007 by Axxman