The Emergent Church

[RedeemedByHim]

Rick Warren is for another topic as he is not Emergent, however, he adopts a Pragmatic view of Christianity, which is anti-biblical because it eventually denies God of all His glory.

What is pragmatic????????

[eric]

There's lots of stuff here that goes into detail about the Emergent Church ~~ going global... and yes, Rick Warren is front and center.

SOURCE

Thanks for the link.Toni, I have read similar from other sources, which I consider to be reliable.

Warren and Mclaren might be from different loose boxes, but they are both from the same stables and were groomed a lot by the same trainer. who is one of the biggest heretics in the business, and I say business literally here,because they are in the business of marketing the bible to clock up brownie points for themselves instead of glorifying the triunity of the Godhead, and giving ecumanism a boost while they'e about it.

Any way that's how it appears to me at this point in time.

[apothanein kerdos]

Peter is off on his view of Pragmatism. It is a philosophy that impedes on how we operate, our ethics, beliefs, etc. Not all forms of pragmatism are wrong. For instance, if I have a flat tire, the most pragmatic thing to do is to change that tire. Pragmatism, in non-ethical and non-religious functions, is a wonderful thing that makes life easier.

The problem is that many in America apply pragmatism to ethics and religious beliefs. Warren is no different from this. He sees a goal (bigger church) and does what he can to reach that goal (water down Gospel, turn the Gospel into a method, etc).

Leading this to the article posted, this is why the article is wrong in lumping McLaren and Warren together. Both are wrong, but they are wrong at different areas. McLaren would reject Warren's theology due to Warren adopting a more modern approach to evangelism (modern defined by its philosophy) that uses a method and is not fluid. This alone disqualifies Warren from being Emergent.

I have studied the Emergent Church (and used to believe quite a bit of it). In fact, if you go to Controversial Issues you'll see an article I'm submitting for peer review in a theological journal concerning a book that falls under the Emergent Category. I am also working on another peer reviewed article that will cover the issue deeper. I have no problem answering questions about this movement, but I do want to stress that Warren is not part of it. We must know what we are up against, and cannot misrepresent who is part of the movement and who is not.

If you look through my past posts, specifically early 2005 and late 2004, you'll see where I quote McLaren and endorse him often. Along with the late Yaconelli. I used to be in this movement as a follower - I learned from my mistakes and now I am fighting against this heresy.

[EricH]

If you would like to read a balanced discussion of the Emergent Movement take a look at:

Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church: Understanding a movement and its implications by DA Carson

[apothanein kerdos]

If you would like to read a balanced discussion of the Emergent Movement take a look at:

Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church: Understanding a movement and its implications by DA Carson

This is an excellent book. Unfortunately, I don't think Carson explores the epistemological outlook of the church in an in depth manner. To be fair to Carson, many of the books dealing with the issue from a pro-Emergent view were not out at the time he wrote his book.

[OLD SCHOOL]

Here's a great link at bottom of post that lists just about everything being said by Warren, McLauren, Bell, Southerland, Campolo, McManus, Sweet, Jones and other EC leaders, and it is a fact that these are their leaders or some of them. As mentioned above the EC is post modern in theology and is actually re-writing it. They've also fought back at their critics calling them "leaders from hell." So that name calling alone should tell you something about them.

The EC is big on Contemplative Prayer which the link below describes in detail which is basically far eastern mysticism along with the new " breath prayers" ala prayer chants by Buddists.

Math 6:7-8 - do not speak in vain repetition.

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"When [Richard] Foster speaks of the silence, he does not mean external silence. In his book, Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home, Foster recommends the practice of breath prayer?picking a single word or short phrase and repeating it in conjunction with the breath. This is classic contemplative mysticism.

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Who is promoting "breath prayers?"

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Who is promoting Breath Prayers?

Rick Warren

"With practice, you can develop the habit of praying silent 'breath prayers'"

Edited July 29, 2007 by OLD SCHOOL

[tsth]

It is my understanding that there are TWO different prominent movements taking place in the churches of this nation.

Emergent

Seeker Sensitive.

And that these are totally different in nature.

If I'm understanding correctly, the Emergent is more into visual/sensory gimmicks. Labyrinths, candles, chanting, etc. They are void of doctrinal instruction, and heavy on so-called spiritual atmospheres and practice. Mantras, and silent prayer with God alone and see how you feel about what He is telling you, rather than going to His Word.

Whereas the Seeker Sensitive is the Rick Warren/Joel Olsteen church environment. Feel good/gimmick to get you to come to church. Avoid heavy topics and conviction of sin. Teaching only the parts of the Bible that are appealing and leave the hard topics alone. It is about BIG numbers and church building.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Dear Old School,

I tried to send you a pm, but says your message box is either disabled or full. You might want to go into your Control panel and see if your personal message is activated so that you can receive messages. I don't mind sharing it here though. This is what I tried to send to you:

Dear Old School,

Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. Just read your 1st post, and totally relate to it. Our story is much the same. My hubby was the head deacon when this wind of deception hit our church. Long story short, we were pretty much run out of the church, because we weren't getting "the vision"!

I KNOW how painful it feels and just wanted to tell you I"m very sorry. It's must be much like a bad divorce. At least for us it is. We live in a small community outside our city, so our neighbors are those that are still part of the church we had to leave. It feels very awkward and bad as we see those that were our church family just about EVERY day. They are our neighbors, but now, it's like living among strangers.

I hope you can find a Bible-believing church to go to. It has not been easy for us.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[traveller]

Dear Old School,

I tried to send you a pm, but says your message box is either disabled or full. You might want to go into your Control panel and see if your personal message is activated so that you can receive messages. I don't mind sharing it here though. This is what I tried to send to you:

psst - sis - it requires 10 posts before a newbie has PM function.

[tsth]

Thanks Trav!

Makes sense.

In His Love,

Suzanne