CWJ Posted January 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2004 That was spoken while The Apostle Judas Iscariot was in the process of betraying Jesus, so yes at that point he was unsaved. But he was earlier in his ministry--there is so much proof that it amazes me that people can call him unsaved. So if he was saved....what was he saved from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted January 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted January 17, 2004 That was spoken while The Apostle Judas Iscariot was in the process of betraying Jesus, so yes at that point he was unsaved. But he was earlier in his ministry--there is so much proof that it amazes me that people can call him unsaved. So if he was saved....what was he saved from? Well..... Matthew 12:48-50 [Jesus] replied to him, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2004 Matthew 18:12-14 ...if a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted January 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted January 17, 2004 This whole idea that one must remain "in Him" to stay saved shows a lack of understanding of how salvation works. One does not get "in Him" by what they do. They do not get "out of Him" by what they do. You are placed in Him by God Himself. This was a work of Grace. You accept that by faith. Your works cannot get you saved, and thus they cannot keep you saved. If your salvation depends upon your works, then you are your own savior. You have basically become your own Messiah. You are the one saving you and not Christ. You do not need Christ, because according to the theology of those who believe in this works based salvation, Christ does not have the power to keep you. You anti-OSAS should just pray to yourselves because you are more powerful than Jesus. You have the power to do what he cannot do. You have the power to ensure your salvation. Either you are saved because you are a god and have the power to ensure that, or you are saved by Grace through faith in Christ alone. This is a common misrepresentation of a conditional security. There is a difference between works of merit and righteous acts of the saints. It is God who does the works through a surrendered Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted January 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted January 17, 2004 An obvious misinterpretation. This passage only goes to show God's tremendous love...it shows His "willing that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance." It semms to me that the prodigal son was always a "son", he never quit being the father's child, he only lost "fellowship". "But the choice is still yours." Yes to become born-again...once. Luke 15: 11,24,32 It is clear that the son was alive spiritually (verse 11), was dead spiritually (verse 32), and is alive again spiritually (verse 32). You absolutely must admit that this person remained physically alive the whole time. And you absolutely must admit that this person was refered to as dead and lost. This can only be spiritual death, because he was still physically alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2004 What I mentioned about the prodigal son is the one way to look at it; he was alive...(in fellowship)....then dead (out of fellowship).....alive again (back in fellowship)....he was always a "son"...or child of the Father. Within the parable...the Father saying his son was dead....it couldn't mean spiritualy(because this father isn't actually God)....it would have to mean "as if"...because the son didn't die in the parable. The son was "alive again", as if to say back within fellowship with his father. Then we must realize that Jesus is trying to convey the joy of God at the salvation of even just one sinner. luke 15:10.."likewise I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." How much joy? Well...the same as a father who thought his son was dead and returned, to be found "alive" again! The context in Luke 15 is about the joy of God when the lost are saved...not that one can be saved, lost, and saved again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JCisLord Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 His Son, are there not Scriptures that show that the grace of God can be insulted or resisted through continuous willful unfaithfulness and disobedience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted January 26, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted January 26, 2004 JC: Thanks for the email. There are 2 motifs in Scripture. We are secure in Christ, but risk apostasy if we drift from the faith (avoid proof texts). Salvation is a relationship that must be freely entered into and maintained (conditional eternal security). Robert Shank "Life in the Son: A study of the doctrine of Perseverence." Westcott, 1960 (Southern Baptist) p.334 has a list of verses establishing conditional security contrasted with usual passages cited by Chafer as misunderstood by Arminians (support unconditional eternal security). There is some overlap in the columns, but Shank masterfully exegetes the passages in his text showing where Chafer/Calvinism misses context, word studies, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His son Posted January 27, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 764 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2004 His Son, are there not Scriptures that show that the grace of God can be insulted or resisted through continuous willful unfaithfulness and disobedience? Exod 15:26 26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee. (KJV) He is talking to them after He had saved them from Egypt, and telling them that if they don't do what He tells them to they will return to what Egypt had received for there refusal to obey Him in letting them go. Heres a short list to start with. If you want more I have a bunch of them. Exod 19:5+* Exod 20:6+* Exod 23:22* Lev 26:3*-43 Deut 4:1* Deut 4:40* Deut 5:10 Deut 5:29 Deuteronomy 6:14-15,24-25 Deut 7:9 Deut 7:12-15 Deut 11:26-28 Deut 12:28 Deut 15:4-5 Deut 28:1-14 Deut 29:9+most Deut 30:1-6+most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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