Noah, the Flood, and Utnapishtim

[CaritateDei]

While many on here will say that the Biblical story of the flood is EXACTLY how it happened, could it be that the story of Noah was merely an inculturation of the Babylonian story of Utnapishtim? Has anyone here done some real research on the story?

Yes the Biblical story of the flood is exactly as it happened, cause the Word of God tells us so.

Thank you for acknowledging part A of my statement, but the entire point of this topic was to respond to part B! Gosh, now I know how the atheists feel!

[Floatingaxe]

I believe it is part of the original true story, handed down from generation to generation and suffering a bit of the "grapevine effect". The dispersion of peoples tends to do that!

[kittylover0991]

Hey

Please first let me say that I believe that the Bible is my all and all, and that I know it is accurate... second? I am not a master of this topic, and in fact, I've never heard of it until you brought it up.. so, instead of just answering, here are some things I found

Utnapishtim is defined in dictionary.com as

[Floatingaxe]

Utnapishtim is a mythical being in the first place....why the interest?

[Tubal-Cain]

I am looking for scholastic, historical research on the flood...and whether or not there could possibly have been a connection with EVERY OTHER culture that has a big flood story.

I recommend starting with the Anchor Bible Dictionary entries on the subject ("Flood" and "Noah and the Ark"). They will provide a good summary on current scholarship and they have a good bibliography for further information. Send me a PM and I can email you the two entries from the Anchor Bible Dictionary in PDF format (about 230 KB).

Could Utnapishtim and Noah be the same person?

Only if one or both of the stories were modified in some way.

Could the flood be merely an allegory?

Yes and that's the position I take. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to provide much more information at this time.

[CaritateDei]

I am looking for scholastic, historical research on the flood...and whether or not there could possibly have been a connection with EVERY OTHER culture that has a big flood story.

I recommend starting with the Anchor Bible Dictionary entries on the subject ("Flood" and "Noah and the Ark"). They will provide a good summary on current scholarship and they have a good bibliography for further information. Send me a PM and I can email you the two entries from the Anchor Bible Dictionary in PDF format (about 230 KB).

Could Utnapishtim and Noah be the same person?

Only if one or both of the stories were modified in some way.

Could the flood be merely an allegory?

Yes and that's the position I take. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to provide much more information at this time.

Thank you, Tubal Cain for giving a thought out, rational answer to my question, and I appreciate your viewpoint.

[Tubal-Cain]

From as far as I can see, Noah wasn't a king or a priest, and I think what bothers me most about this paragraph is the statement "He shows many similitaries with the much more recent biblical Noah"

The story of Noah, as we know it in the Bible, was not compiled until around the Babylonian exile (587 BC). Hence it came into existence more recently than the Epic of Gilgamesh. As mentioned earlier, per the Documentary hypothesis (aka JEPD theory), the current flood story is a combination of two earlier stories about the flood (This might be of interest).

Considering that the world itself is only about 7-9 thousand years old, I'm having some small issues with this story. According to Wikipedia (not very reliable lol ) the earliest version of the flood myth preserved fragmentarily is in the Sumerian language, dating to ca. 2600 BC,"... does this mean that that is when it was first written down, does that mean that it's been carried by mouth for so long etc?

I believe the Epic of Gilgamesh was found written in stone so I'm guessing the date for that work is based on the date of the rock it was written on.

[CaritateDei]

From as far as I can see, Noah wasn't a king or a priest, and I think what bothers me most about this paragraph is the statement "He shows many similitaries with the much more recent biblical Noah"

The story of Noah, as we know it in the Bible, was not compiled until around the Babylonian exile (587 BC). Hence it came into existence more recently than the Epic of Gilgamesh. As mentioned earlier, per the Documentary hypothesis (aka JEPD theory), the current flood story is a combination of two earlier stories about the flood (This might be of interest).

Considering that the world itself is only about 7-9 thousand years old, I'm having some small issues with this story. According to Wikipedia (not very reliable lol ) the earliest version of the flood myth preserved fragmentarily is in the Sumerian language, dating to ca. 2600 BC,"... does this mean that that is when it was first written down, does that mean that it's been carried by mouth for so long etc?

I believe the Epic of Gilgamesh was found written in stone so I'm guessing the date for that work is based on the date of the rock it was written on.

Well, I have a problem with saying the earth is only 7-9 thousand years old...

And second, even conservative "Bible is always inerrant" believers think that the flood HAPPENED in 2600 B.C., but did not get written down until Moses.

Most Biblical scholars these days are pretty confident in saying that Moses did not write the five books attributed to him, because Moses contradicts himself and repeats himself too much, most especially in Genesis.

I am VERY GLAD that Tubal Cain brings up the WELL RESEARCHED, AND VERY SCHOLARLY JEPD theory here...especially considering the story of the flood has several inconsistencies and even more repititions. He also confirms what I said earlier about the time when these were compiled.

I would like someone who has researched...and wikipedia does not count...whether or not the inculturation of many flood stories brought about the story of Noah...considering EVERY religion has a flood story, some of which PRECEDED the story of Noah.

[Floatingaxe]

I'm guessing the date for that work is based on the date of the rock it was written on.

So as soon as the rock was formed, someone wrote on it? Amazing!

[kittylover0991]

Wait! lol I made a big mistake!!! I read "BC" and thought "AD"

Sorry!