McCain Backs Gun Rights After Shootings

[Leonard]

You have it all wrong. While the victims did have a Constitutional right to own guns, they were not allowed to have them in possession while on campus. If they had them at the time, the gunman wouldn't have gotten away with killing so many. Notice that the gunman didn't follow the rules with regard to firearms on campus. Criminals don't follow the law, so all that gun laws do is keep guns out of the hands of innocent people trying to protect themselves. I wish the other students did have guns at the time of this tragedy so they could have shot the criminal right away.

Do you really think that having a bunch of 18-21 yr old kids carrying guns to school is the answer? According to this philosophy, the gunman was within his constitutional rights to have the guns...until he used them. As someone in law enforcement...and I'm sure hr.jr would agree...the private use of firearms in these situations is RARELY effective, and usually causes more death.

Dirty Harry is a movie...most people (even those who carry guns) are ill equipped to handle this type of situation. Gun laws need to be enforced. I am not pushing for a "ban"...I am pushing for laws to be enforced. I'll bet that once info comes out on this guy, there was some evidence of his instability...someone knew of the possibility this could happen...and no one did anything.

Just like the girl who bought the guns used in the Columbine shooting...she was never arrested and never had any charges brought against her. Thats bogus! The two boys were only 17 so the gun show dealer wouldn't sell to them. They returned later with an 18 yr old girl friend, and she bought the guns and gave them to the boys. The gun dealer and the girl should both be held accountable...and they never were.

Enforce the laws.

Excuse me, Axxman, what color is the sky in your universe? The FACT is that privately owned guns are used HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF TIMES EVERY YEAR to prevent serious crimes, and in the overwhelming majority of times, NO SHOT IS EVEN FIRED. Just the sight of the gun, causes the criminal to cease and desist.

Statistically the armed citizen is 17 times LESS LIKELY to accidentally shoot an innocent bystander, than is your touted 'highly trained' police department.

PS: The unarmed campus 'police' at VT were worthless.

[Marnie]

Under Virginia law, a registered foreign national has the right to posess and purchase firearms. The korean that went on the shooting rampage yesterday purchased the Glock last month and the other pistol last week, he had receipts. Virginia needs to change the law so that no foreign national, regarding standing in society has the right to posess or purchase any firearms. That should be a right solely for American Citizens, no one else.

The problem was with the Korean kid, not with the gun or with the gun laws. He was a loner, he was on anti depressants and was antisocial, perfect profile for this kind thing. Virginia gun laws are slacker than in other states. However, had he wanted to get a gun, he could have easily gotten it on the black market. You'd be surprised how easy it is to obtain a firearm by bypassing the law.

[JustinM]

Under Virginia law, a registered foreign national has the right to posess and purchase firearms. The korean that went on the shooting rampage yesterday purchased the Glock last month and the other pistol last week, he had receipts. Virginia needs to change the law so that no foreign national, regarding standing in society has the right to posess or purchase any firearms. That should be a right solely for American Citizens, no one else.

The problem was with the Korean kid, not with the gun or with the gun laws. He was a loner, he was on anti depressants and was antisocial, perfect profile for this kind thing. Virginia gun laws are slacker than in other states. However, had he wanted to get a gun, he could have easily gotten it on the black market. You'd be surprised how easy it is to obtain a firearm by bypassing the law.

I know that Marnie, all my previous posts in this thread and others have stated that. But, in this case, a foreign national shouldn't even have the right to own or purchase a firearm, that needs to be changed. Had that law been in place, we don't know what outcome there may have been, he may have purchased the firearms illegally, or he may have done nothing, but the lax laws in Virginia do share some of the blame for allowing a non-US Citizen to obtain a firearm.

[Gerioke]

What's to stop the teachers and other law abiding students from snapping once they have their guns. do we legalize vigilantes so these people can shoot whoever they deem dangerous or undesirable? How do we tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys when everybody is packing heat.

How do we bring Marshal Matt dillon back from the dead?

[Axxman]

Excuse me, Axxman, what color is the sky in your universe? The FACT is that privately owned guns are used HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF TIMES EVERY YEAR to prevent serious crimes, and in the overwhelming majority of times, NO SHOT IS EVEN FIRED. Just the sight of the gun, causes the criminal to cease and desist.

Statistically the armed citizen is 17 times LESS LIKELY to accidentally shoot an innocent bystander, than is your touted 'highly trained' police department.

PS: The unarmed campus 'police' at VT were worthless.

Slow down John Wayne...

Where are the stats that prove the FACT that privately owned guns are used "hundreds of thousands of times" to prevent serious crimes.

AS far as private citizens being far less likely to accidentally shoot...true...because most times they don't shoot...they get shot because they are not trained. Don't turn this into an anti-cop diatribe.

[Leonard]

Excuse me, Axxman, what color is the sky in your universe? The FACT is that privately owned guns are used HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF TIMES EVERY YEAR to prevent serious crimes, and in the overwhelming majority of times, NO SHOT IS EVEN FIRED. Just the sight of the gun, causes the criminal to cease and desist.

Statistically the armed citizen is 17 times LESS LIKELY to accidentally shoot an innocent bystander, than is your touted 'highly trained' police department.

PS: The unarmed campus 'police' at VT were worthless.

Slow down John Wayne...

Where are the stats that prove the FACT that privately owned guns are used "hundreds of thousands of times" to prevent serious crimes.

AS far as private citizens being far less likely to accidentally shoot...true...because most times they don't shoot...they get shot because they are not trained. Don't turn this into an anti-cop diatribe.

First of all, these days it's very easy to go look up the facts, so I'm not going to do all your homework for you. The stats are all easily available....provided you have an open mind.

Number two, I have personally liked almost every cop I ever met. I don't believe that a police department should even exist; they're filling jobs that ought not to be in a free society, but they seem by and large to be decent chaps. HOWEVER, if you compare the number of gun fights law enforcement officers get involved in, with the number of gun fight private, law-abiding citizens get into, and then work out the statistics on how often an innocent person gets shot, and by whom, you will find the private citizen is MUCH safer with his gun, than are the police. Strange but true.

You have alleged that the private citizens with guns end up 'getting shot because they are not trained,' however the statistics simply do not back up your pronouncement. Please look up some actual data on these issues. I think you will find it truly surprising.

[Eliyahuw]

I don't have a problem with banning assault weapons. Everyone here and every hunter knows that those weapons are only good for hunting one thing,,,people. As for gun laws we need to enforce the one we have and not make new ones.

Define assault weapon. i can make a .22 into an assault weapon. A .22 will kill just as many people as a assault weapon will. even better a shotgun will kill more people with one shot than a assault weapon will.

Assault weapon ban is just a scare tactic. we already have laws on the books from the 1920's concerning automatic weapons so their not even a consideration.

[Eliyahuw]

I thought McCain had voted for that bogus 'assault weapons' ban?

I could be mistaken.............(OOH! Don't tell anyone I said that!)

I don't have a problem with banning assault weapons. Everyone here and every hunter knows that those weapons are only good for hunting one thing,,,people. As for gun laws we need to enforce the one we have and not make new ones. Guns in the hands of responsible people that get them legally are fine. If we take away the guns the the only ones that are going to have them are the ones like this kook who just murdered 32 people.

You're right, an assault rifle is good for stopping people. That's really all it is good for. If someone breaks into my home, they'll regret it. Their 9mm handgun that they stole won't be a match for my 7.62 NATO round. I can shoot through walls - they can't. Gotta love the SKS.

If that doesn't work, "Stubby" should. It's my (legal) combat shotgun. Short barrel, pistol grip...it's a beauty.

Or my M-1 Carbine.

Or my .22 (won't do much, but it'll still stop 'em)

Or my 12 gauge

Or my .40mm pistol

If you don't get em with that, i have my 1917 springfield 30.06, my remington semi auto 30.06, and my sks....

my .357 and .44mag will also handle em up close and personal.

[Eliyahuw]

Thank goodness we live in a society were this nutjob had the right to bear arms. Can you imagine the horror of living in a society in which he didn't have the right to own those guns.

I totally agree that it is ludicrous to ban guns. I mean, how will the good people protect themselves. Its a good thing that all the victims in this case had the right to own guns so they could protect themselves from this madman.

BTW...more Americans died yesterday at the hands of a madman who "had" the right to bear arms...than in ANY single day of war in Iraq. Until we start enforcing gun laws and taking the problem seriously...we can look forward to this type of garbage every once in a while.

You have it all wrong. While the victims did have a Constitutional right to own guns, they were not allowed to have them in possession while on campus. If they had them at the time, the gunman wouldn't have gotten away with killing so many. Notice that the gunman didn't follow the rules with regard to firearms on campus. Criminals don't follow the law, so all that gun laws do is keep guns out of the hands of innocent people trying to protect themselves. I wish the other students did have guns at the time of this tragedy so they could have shot the criminal right away.

[Eliyahuw]

Do you really think that having a bunch of 18-21 yr old kids carrying guns to school is the answer? According to this philosophy, the gunman was within his constitutional rights to have the guns...until he used them. As someone in law enforcement...and I'm sure hr.jr would agree...the private use of firearms in these situations is RARELY effective, and usually causes more death.

You would be wrong on that assumption. More crimes are prevented by law abiding citizens carrying handguns. There are many adults on a campus including students, that are 30+, years old. Even if their not, 21+ year old is quite capable of carrying and using a weapon effectively in a emergency situation.

I carry all the time. Even when i go onto a campus. I personally would rather be tried by a jury of my peers than be laid to rest by 6 pal bearers.

And... I hit what i shoot at every time i fire it.

Dirty Harry is a movie...most people (even those who carry guns) are ill equipped to handle this type of situation.

Just as dirty harry is a fantasy, so is police protection. Cops aren't going to go in there and protect us. Their going to hide until the shooting stops or add to the casualties.

Just like the girl who bought the guns used in the Columbine shooting...she was never arrested and never had any charges brought against her. Thats bogus! The two boys were only 17 so the gun show dealer wouldn't sell to them. They returned later with an 18 yr old girl friend, and she bought the guns and gave them to the boys. The gun dealer and the girl should both be held accountable...and they never were.

the reason they weren't charged is there wasn't enough evidence to convict them. Intent is very difficult to prove when the ones who did the deed are dead.