Is the Pre-Trib Rapture Real? Origins of the Pre-Trib Rapture Theory

[Christian]

Tell ya what; as soon as you can find any Bible reference to 'The Great Tribulation', I'll consider the rest of your argument........ I'll give you ten years to find even ONE reference.

Tell you what; as soon as you can find any exact usage of the term "rapture" in the Bible I'll give credence to your position........ I'll give you ten years to find even ONE usage.

And I'm not speaking about twisting the one word "rapere" in the Latin translation of the Greek text of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (which means to seize or abduct in Latin), to be a valid "exact" usage. Even harpazō does not imply anything other than Him drawing us to Him. Of course we will be "caught up"...we're not going to jump off the earth to meet Him.

[chin]

there will be people saved during the tibulation. the saints that the anti-christ goes after are those very people. i did'nt say there would not be saints on the earth during the tribulation. GOD will also use jewish saints to spread the gospel. they will also be pursued.

[chin]

christian, why would GOD make saints go through the tibulation if the purpose of the trib. is to get sinners to repent? saints have already repented. for GOD did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our LORD JESUS CHRIST.(1thessalonians 5:9) when GOD brought judgement to the earth, did HE not provide escape,for noah and lot? CHRIST died so we could escape hell. has GOD not always provided escape from judgement?

Edited July 24, 2007 by chin

[chin]

Tell ya what; as soon as you can find any Bible reference to 'The Great Tribulation', I'll consider the rest of your argument........ I'll give you ten years to find even ONE reference.

Tell you what; as soon as you can find any exact usage of the term "rapture" in the Bible I'll give credence to your position........ I'll give you ten years to find even ONE usage.

And I'm not speaking about twisting the one word "rapere" in the Latin translation of the Greek text of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (which means to seize or abduct in Latin), to be a valid "exact" usage. Even harpazō does not imply anything other than Him drawing us to Him. Of course we will be "caught up"...we're not going to jump off the earth to meet Him.

thank you brother, i could'nt have said it better. "of course we wll be cuught up"! why is the word "rapere" used if it means nothing? it's there for a reason. i hope this is not just for the sake of arguing. you can believe what you like. even GOD gives us free choice!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fraught]

christian, why would GOD make saints go through the tibulation if the purpose of the trib. is to get sinners to repent? saints have already repented. for GOD did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our LORD JESUS CHRIST.(1thessalonians 5:9) when GOD brought judgement to the earth, did HE not provide escape,for noah and lot? CHRIST died so we could escape hell. has GOD not always provided escape from judgement?

God may have other ways to protect us besides the snatching us away. give God some credit - if i'm here, i know God can protect me and help me to help others.

[Fraught]

I used to believe that until I actually prayed about it and asked God to please present the truth of the matter to me clearly.

Couple of days later I was invited to a church study on the 10 virgins.

Condensed: All were invited, all were somewhat ready, some went, some stayed.

Luke says, Pray that you be counted worthy to escape the tribulation coming on the earth.

I believe some christians will be left behind and endure to the end and still be saved in the millineum. I believe some will be accounted worthy to escape.

Just as Enoch and Elijah were the only two taken up, I don't think it will be that many.

thanks for this post - it is a refreshing way to look at it. a way not to have to twist things around to make things fit as you must to believe fully in a pre-trib position.

also it fully supports the knowledge that 'all things are possible with God'. so Enoch and Elijah the only 2 taken up that we know of (setting a precedent) yep, interesting!

[Christian]

THE SECOND COMING

The Lord

[Fraught]

Actually fraught there is no way to support the pretrib theory without twisting scripture,changing the common since meaning or flat out butchering the word.Biblicaly it is flat out undeffendable.There is not one scripture in Gods word that could be used to support this false doctrine unless used incorrectly and blatenly so.It is only because of our fear and unwillingness to stand for God that anyone that has studied scripture for themselves would ever inhear to this belief.

i agree but hey - we can be very pleasantly surprised if we're wrong

[poorinspirit]

Brother Todd,

Thank you for your post. It is so refreshing to hear the "Scriptural" truth spoken in regards to this subject. Truly the burden of proof is upon those who choose to believe this "pre-trib" fable merely based upon unsound (false) teaching, and the two or three verses they continually use out of context to make their case.

Pre-trib rapture is not "taught" to us in the Scriptures anywhere, unlike everything else is that we find so clearly taught to us repetitively in the Bible.

The pre-tibulation rapture is unscriptural, fosters complacency about future persecution, and undermines the main mission of the church to fulfill the Great Commission.

Brother eric said it well...

It's better to be ready for the tribulation and be surprised and caught up in the rapture,

than to be ready for the rapture and be surprised and find yourself caught in the tribulation.

Be ready...be ready....be ready .

Jesus Himself, in one conversation, told us multiple times that there would be one resurrection, making His point VERY clear on the subject !!!

John 6:39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

This does not allow for "multiple" resurrections, and thereby negates any claim by pre-tribbers to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 being a rapture "proof".

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;(17) then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It can only be wishful thinking and the twisting of the Lord's very teaching that would permit one to deny this clear example.

Wake up brothers and sisters,

in Christ's love,

Christian

I believe in the pre-trib rapture because of Jesus' Words about how it will be in the days of Noah just before the great tribulation happens thus alluding to the first rapture being the ark.. the escape. I also believe that the first rapture is about judgment on the House of God first because of all the false prophets that has come in, thereby leading to those that believe in His name getting left behind because they were not ready by heeding His sayings to be found abiding in Him. Thus the time of the Gentiles comes to an end as the dispensation of the Gospel will go back to the Jews.. hence the 144,000 witnesses after the first rapture.

There are verses about three harvests.

Luke 12: 35Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; 36And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Matthew 13: 33Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

So then.... pre trib rapture or harvest

the end of the great trib rapture or harvest

the end of Jesus' millenial reign after Satan was relaeased from the pit to lead many to rebel against Jesus which will be a harvest there also.

So now we go to Jesus' own words... keeping in mind of Matthew 7:13-24 & Luke 13:24-30 which describes how bad the falling away of the faith will be in the churches because of false prophets...

Matthew 24: 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How can we know it to be before the great tribulation? Because it lasts 7 years. Even if there was doubt as to when it has begun.... the mid tribulation point was declared. From that point, one can say three and a half years later... Jesus Christ will return. Indeed, the enemy will gather his armies to fight the Lord at that valley of Armageddon. How can the enemy know? How can the saints not know when Jesus Christ will return during the great tribulation?

Something to think about and pray to the Lord Jesus about.

[Yahsway]

Matt 24:36 Which aspects of Jesus ministry does He say the "Days of Noah" picture? Of course its Jesus 2nd coming.

In what manner were the days of Noah a picture of Jesus coming? Matt 24:36-39 Note how Jesus connects the total destruction of the generation of the flood with His 2nd coming. The key words are this

"and took THEM ALL away." So what does that phrse mean? It means they were killed. Jesus clearly states that when he comes, people will be destroyed, ust as in the days of Noah.

How is Matt 24:40-41 connected to Matt 24:39? They are connected thru the common predicate. "take away"

Just as the generation of the flood continued to live as if life would never end UNTIL THE FLOOD CAME AND TOOK THEM ALL AWAY. so, likewise

1. one in the field shall be TAKEN

2. One grinding at the mill will be TAKEN

those Taken are taken in judgement as were those of Noahs day.

The context of Matt 24"40-41 does not suggest that Jesus is talking about a "Rapture". The context is about Jesus talking about the "Judgement of the ungodly. This is the reason Jesus connects it with the flood.

Luke 17:34-37

In this passage the disciples ask Jesus where will those who are taken, be taken? Luke 17:37 says those TAKEN are taken to a place of judgement/destruction (a place of carcasses and vultures)

Matt 13:40-43 When He comes, He will send forth His angels to TAKE all the unsaved into judgement/destruction.

So when is the timing? Luke 17:34-47 Matt 24:36-41 AFTER the "tribulation of those days"

Rev19:17 Luke 17:34-47 Matt 24:36-41 When Jesus returns, an angel will call the birds/vultures of the earth to prepare for a feast.

Understanding that the Old Test is a foundation for understanding the New Test we can learn that the term "taken away" is a hebrew idiom which means to "destroy/kill. Here is a few passages that may help one understand the meaning of "taken away" as it is thru out the scriptures.

Is57:13 57:1 40:24 64:6 Ezekiel 30:4 33:4 Daniel 11:12 Hosea 1:6 Matt 22:13 2Kings 13:3

But will we be "caught up" in the clouds to meet Him in the air? Yes Why was Noah not destroyed. Because he was not on the face of the earth Gen7:4 As in the days of Noah, ALL peoples who are on the face of the earth will be TAKEN AWAY. Killed

Noah was in the ark but where was the ark? It was taken up with the rising flood waters. The ark was as high as the mountains. Taken up into the sky. This picture of Noah and family in the ark rising into the sky because of the flood waters is a picture of our gathering to meet Messiah in the sky. 1 Thess 4:14-17