Ban on Partial Birth Abortions

[Marnie]

40-50 million people without health care is an issue (not sure on the exact numbers). Republicans will do nothing to address the issue while Democrats will at least try. A prefer someone who tries to do something good over someone who doesn't care at all.

With what? Solutions like Hillarycare??!! Shudder shudder!!!

A nation of over 300 million and only 50 million without health care?? Not bad odds, if you ask me. Since when did health care become a right in America?

Easy to say when you're not one of those 50 million.

I am one of those without health care. I've had a sore throat for three weeks now...and been sick for a month. The reason is:

1) I can't afford to go to a doctor

2) I can't afford to get medication

Now, I'm not playing the "woe is me" card. I'm working to put myself into a better situation...thank God I live in America where I can do that. I'm also not calling for a universal health care system - the last thing I want is to be on a government list receiving help from them. They lose my mail...why do I want them handling my health?

I need surgery on my shoulder and neck...but I can't afford insurance so it hasn't been done. I'm constantly sick because I can't afford medication and I'm too poor to get organic or health food. Right or wrong, I've talked hospitals into admitting me when I was in desperate need for it...I now owe thousands of dollars in medical debt that I simply can't pay. Is it my fault that I want to be healthy? Is it my fault that I want an education so I never have to worry about this again?

Again, I'm not asking for a huge medical plan from the government...just please be careful how you word things and show a bit of sympathy for those of us who have the odds stacked against us.

You are in school, as I recall. When you graduate and join the ranks of the employed, you will have the healthcare you need. I don't see a problem here. If you are a married and mature student, as I assume you are, then your wife should have a job that provides health insurance. If she doesn't, whose fault it that? For that matter, we plan our lives, why not plan on having health insurance? I worked two jobs while in college and I was covered both under my dad's plan and one of my employers plans.

If it's important to you, you will have insurance. I assume you have it on your car, your home and your life.

Why would any tax payer want to pay for your health care? We've had this dance before and we just have a different worldview.

[EricH]

Okay, the Supremes upheld the ban on the heinous "partial birth abortion" procedure. That story is here. What do members of our political parties say:

The Democrats have come out with these statements:

'Erosion of our constitutional rights'... Link.

'I strongly disagree'... Link.

'I could not disagree more strongly'... Link.

The Republicans have said this:

'I agree with it'... Link.

'A step forward'... Link.

'I'm very happy...' Link.

My question to all of you who have voted for or plan on voting for the Democrat party: How can you, as a born again Christian, vote for a party that would support such an evil act? Explain yourselves to me.

Not all democrats support the procedure. So, I would evaluate each candidate in regards to this issue (as well as others)

[rtwo]

Okay, the Supremes upheld the ban on the heinous "partial birth abortion" procedure. That story is here. What do members of our political parties say:

The Democrats have come out with these statements:

'Erosion of our constitutional rights'... Link.

'I strongly disagree'... Link.

'I could not disagree more strongly'... Link.

The Republicans have said this:

'I agree with it'... Link.

'A step forward'... Link.

'I'm very happy...' Link.

My question to all of you who have voted for or plan on voting for the Democrat party: How can you, as a born again Christian, vote for a party that would support such an evil act? Explain yourselves to me.

Not all democrats support the procedure. So, I would evaluate each candidate in regards to this issue (as well as others)

While not every Democrat supports the procedure, a clear majority does. In addition, an even bigger majority of Democrats support abortion in general than Republicans. There are a few exceptions to the rule, and we should check out the voting record of each candidate, but as a whole, Republicans tend to be pro-life and Democrats tend to be anti-life.

Good summary. I would add that even if you don't agree philosophically with abortion, by putting somebody in office who does, you are, in fact, supporting it.

[Smalcald]

Health care is kind of an illusion.

We DO have universal government health care in the U.S.; it is just not done very well. If someone without private insurance gets sick, or say AK breaks his neck, he would go to the ER, he WOULD be served. Who would pay for that? The taxpayers would both indirectly or directly pay, we don't let people die on the street. But he would not get the same quality of service I would get from my private insurance paid for doctor. It would be cheaper to provide some form of catastrophic care for those who do not have private insurance as visits to the ER when things are really bad end up being very expensive and they are not that good of quality.

As far as free loading goes, I think prior to welfare reform, yes there were major problems, but this has really been taken care of. Sure there are always cases we can point to in any system of abuse. But the fact is you really can't even get welfare in the US today if you don't have dependant children. Most people on welfare today are single women with kids. Food stamps help children in large part, in fact I think we should increase food stamps, they are a miniscule part of our budget. Welfare in general is a small part of the US federal budget.

As far as Medicaid goes, you basically have to make almost nothing to qualify for it, so the way it is structured now is that if you do the right thing and work, you get denied health care, if you don't work or intentionally work less you can get health care for your kids and yourself. The real freeloaders are large corporations who don't pay health insurance and also schedule a bunch of people to work 38.5 hours so as to not be full time and then tell them to go down to social services to get health care.

Anyway enough of my rant, I don't think this will be solved you have too many powerful interest groups that are gaining by the current system of health care. But consider this, the US pays MORE for health care on a per-capita basis than almost all other nations do, we have the MOST expensive system, beyond even those "horrible" ones that provide universal government health care, and yet we are not a healthy nation. We are around number 14 in the world in life expectancy, a little above Costa Rica. So what are we getting for all of this money and who is benefiting? This is the question we must ask, because it certainly is not the public's health.

[roselady]

Hon,

That's nice...

... and we are commanded to forgive our brother correct?

IF he repents, yes. Repentance precedes forgiveness in God's will.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Luke 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Those who continue to murder innocent babies are not repenting.

Abortion is no better than the pagans (and children of Israel) sacrificing their first born child to Baal in ancient times. They did so to ensure fertile crops in order to sustain their standard of life. God didn't command love but rather they suffered HIS wrath.

God is all about LOVE in the context of JUSTICE.

Hon,

I agree with you, they SHOULD repent first, but the thing that always gets me is sometimes people will still carry that grudge ya know? I think about things I have done before I was a Christian (it wasnt abortion) but I did some not so good things back then. I think, what if people held that against me forever?

I am not saying that we just should forgive them and give them our blessing to keep doing it. Abortion is awful, horrific, I cant even imagine doing something like that. I have 4 kids, love each one of them and would not trade them for the world BUT and this is sort of a testamony for you, I can see the other side of the coin here.

I will tell you what happened to me and maybe you can see just a bit of where I am comming from on this issue. OK I used to be in the Army, when I went into basic training, I was married and pregnant. Not far along at all maybe less than a week. I had no idea I was pregnant, and the pregnancy test they gave me said negative. I went through all of basic training pregnant. Your probably asking why I did not know, well its pretty normal for a woman to loose her monthly visitor when under stress or when they are extremely athletic (basic training is both).

Well out of basic I start getting very sick and find out I am pregnant. The doctors encouraged me to abort my baby. They all had me in tears saying that they thought things like the gas chamber, shots, and everything else could make my baby deformed. I said NO and spent the next several months scared to death that he would not be OK. Hes now 18 years old and doing fine but I think as scared as they had me, what if I had listened? Now I am not saying every story of abortion is that way but they do make it sound pretty convincing sometimes.

I am just saying that if a woman did come to me who had an abortion and was sorry for what she had done, I would be really quick to forgive her as I cant even imagine the amount of guilt there must be for carrying out something like that. Thats all I am saying.

[kat8585]

Health insurance has gotten to be a joke. It sounds good to say that people have insurance, but where I used to work, it got to be insurance in name only, because no one could afford to use it. The deductibles got way out of control (from $300, I believe, to $1000 - $3000, depending on which plan you had), prescription costs tripled, and copays skyrocked in general. Even if we got raises, which they were stingy with, we lost ground, and the insurance was worthless. I'm sure every time the company switched plans, they picked a company that benefitted them, and to heck with the employees.

[WayneB]

I am just saying that if a woman did come to me who had an abortion and was sorry for what she had done, I would be really quick to forgive her as I cant even imagine the amount of guilt there must be for carrying out something like that. Thats all I am saying.

...then we agree IF by being sorry it means she truly repented and learned from her mistake.

2 Corinthians 7:10

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Regardless, it isn't up to me to forgive or not forgive her. That is between her and God. What is my my responsibility as a follower of Christ is to not compromise God's truth and point her to her source of redemption and healing...Jesus.

[WayneB]

Health insurance has gotten to be a joke. It sounds good to say that people have insurance, but where I used to work, it got to be insurance in name only, because no one could afford to use it. The deductibles got way out of control (from $300, I believe, to $1000 - $3000, depending on which plan you had), prescription costs tripled, and copays skyrocked in general. Even if we got raises, which they were stingy with, we lost ground, and the insurance was worthless. I'm sure every time the company switched plans, they picked a company that benefitted them, and to heck with the employees.

It is a tough situation.

I employ 168 people. Group health insurance now runs $10,000 a year per person!!! ...and that is just the company's share, which is 80% of the total cost.

It is hard to compete with companies that manufature goods overseas, especially in the Pacific rim, and import into the United States. Those companies don't have the same overheads costs, like health insurance, that I incur.

[kamusat]

Several have said they are not "one issue voters" and most of the time I agree. There are a lot of issues out there that are not do or die issues. But in the case of abortion, when the most innocent and helpless of us are murdered, I am TOTALLY in favor of voting based on that alone. I would never vote for any politician, Rep or Dem that is in favor of abortion. I fully agree that if you vote for someone who believes in abortion you condone abortion.

We have to protect the most vunerable amoung us.. unborn children, born children, and people who are too sick to defend themselves. It grieves me that we are so selfish that we condone "putting down" (as we say on the farm) of anyone we deem as unworthy, too much trouble or inconvienent.

How Jesus must grieve....