Purgatory...defend this false doctrine!

[CaritateDei]

Maybe if one realizes that the Word of God is the sole authority, rather than the soul authority, one would find the logic of Purgatory illogical!

Sorry, I just had to...

No need to apologize. I had just awakened.

[CaritateDei]

For me on purgatory there are two main scriptural issues or problems.

1.) It would see to imply that even if our sins are forgiven by Christ that in itself is not good enough.

2.) What was Paul talking about when he spoke of us getting new glorified bodies? Do these bodies then go to purgatory or is purgatory where we would receive them? It just to me seems to cause some deep logical problems for the doctrine of purgatory.

There are no scriptural problems here, Smalcald.

1.) Christ redeemed us, placing our sins on his back, self sacrificing his body so that we might be redeemed...so that we might have the possibility of heaven. That being said, it is still easy for us all to fall...fall from Christ again and again, because we sin so much. Purgatory just cleanses our imperfection. It is not about forgiveness, but more about cleansing.

2.) There is no logical problem here. In order that the body may be glorified, it must be cleansed. There is complete logic. C.S. Lewis. Samuel Johnson.

Citing someone who holds the position does not guarantee there are not logical problems with the argument

By all means, give me something more logical then what these two VERY logical men have stated...and that I have logically shown, as Smalcald seems to understand, though still not convinced...

So your logic is that because CS Lewis is know for logic, everything he says must be logical (and scriptural). Since you believe this, I assume you accept all of his logical argument regarding things of the faith.

This is actually a form of faulty argumentation known as the "Appeal to Authority"

Here is the logic:

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:

Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.

Person A makes claim C about subject S.

Therefore, C is true.

This fallacy is committed when:

1. The person claimed to be an authority really is not.

2. The person is an authority in the general area, but not in the specific area in question

3. There are other authorities of equal stature and number who disagree

4. The person in question is biased in some way

You are correct that CS Lewis did believe in purgatory. However, there are many other biblical schalars of equal stature that do not. So citing him does not really prove anything other than he believed it. In addition, CS Lewises view of purgatory was significantly different than the commonly held view. He did not view it as pnishment of any sort, and compared it to getting a mouth wash

Again, you put words in my mouth. You also misunderstand purgatory. I know logic. Philosophy and Logic are a couple of my fortes for several reasons which I won't get into.

You believe the Bible is the soul Authority.

I quoted the Bible.

What I quote is the Soul Authority.

C.S. Lewis and Samuel Johnson were mere footnotes on my appeal to the soul authority of Christendom. The main notes were the Bible...I use the RSV...and I stay away from the Deuterocanonicals. I simply used Bible verses that we all have in common. Yet still, we all deny this, or call it false...even by using other Bible verses that do not disprove anything at all.

Saying, "I'm right, and you're wrong," is very unrespectable and illogical if you want to call it an argument.

Saying, "Though you have shown me something, though you have made a decent case and argument, but nothing you can do or say will make me waiver on my opinions or thoughts," is much more respectable." Smalcald, thank you.

I was not addressing your use of scripture. That would need another post. I was addressing your use of Lewis as a proof of the legitimacy of the belief in purgatory. From a logical perspective, it is not a proof, and so is meaningless for our discussion

Lewis was an illustration, not a proof.

[Guest Biblicist]

Maybe if one realizes that the Word of God is the sole authority, rather than the soul authority, one would find the logic of Purgatory illogical!

Sorry, I just had to...

Axey, wouldn't the Word of God be the SOUL authority, as well?

[Floatingaxe]

Maybe if one realizes that the Word of God is the sole authority, rather than the soul authority, one would find the logic of Purgatory illogical!

Sorry, I just had to...

Axey, wouldn't the Word of God be the SOUL authority, as well?

Absolutely!

[Guest Biblicist]

It is not a problem to quote scripture. It's taking scripture out of context and trying to interpret them that way. Taking a verse out of context to prove a point or theory is foolishness.

If I took the verse "Jesus wept." (John 11:35) and used it to prove that Jesus had no hope when it came to death and Heaven, and was an imature cry baby, that would be wrong because there are many other verses in God's word that prove otherwise.

So if there are two interpretations to that verse and other verses in scripture prove my interpretaion wrong, then I would have to conclude that my interpretation is wrong. Scripture interprets scripture.

[EricH]

Lewis was an illustration, not a proof.

Sorry it I misunderstood you. Yiur statment seemed to be using the fact that Lewis held the postition as validation of the logic of your position

2.) There is no logical problem here. In order that the body may be glorified, it must be cleansed. There is complete logic. C.S. Lewis. Samuel Johnson.

[Kenna Frye]

Wow! How far off the mark.

So the blood of Jesus is incapable of cleansing us from all sin? Believing that lie will get you into a lot of trouble one Day.

Here is the problem. You do not respond to a single point I made. You just say, "You're wrong, I'm right."

I have quoted the Bible. The Bible is quite clear that no one is assured of salvation. What is so harmful about purgatory?

Purgatory is not Biblical, there is absolutely no scriptural support for this. Some of the scripture that is supposedly supporting this doctrine comes from the Apocrypha....a set of books added to the bible by the Roman Catholic Church.

(Proverbs 30:5-6)

Every word of God is pure;

He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

Do not add to His words,

Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Need I say more?

[Floatingaxe]

Wow! How far off the mark.

So the blood of Jesus is incapable of cleansing us from all sin? Believing that lie will get you into a lot of trouble one Day.

Here is the problem. You do not respond to a single point I made. You just say, "You're wrong, I'm right."

I have quoted the Bible. The Bible is quite clear that no one is assured of salvation. What is so harmful about purgatory?

Purgatory is not Biblical, there is absolutely no scriptural support for this. Some of the scripture that is supposedly supporting this doctrine comes from the Apocrypha....a set of books added to the bible by the Roman Catholic Church.

(Proverbs 30:5-6)

Every word of God is pure;

He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

Do not add to His words,

Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Need I say more?

Welcome to Worthy, Kenna Frye!

[gypc]

It is not a problem to quote scripture. It's taking scripture out of context and trying to interpret them that way. Taking a verse out of context to prove a point or theory is foolishness.

If I took the verse "Jesus wept." (John 11:35) and used it to prove that Jesus had no hope when it came to death and Heaven, and was an imature cry baby, that would be wrong because there are many other verses in God's word that prove otherwise.

So if there are two interpretations to that verse and other verses in scripture prove my interpretaion wrong, then I would have to conclude that my interpretation is wrong. Scripture interprets scripture.

[Kenna Frye]

Purgatory, how is this found in biblical teaching? If it isn't in the Bible, it is false, correct? Please leave some info for me.