Salvation question

[graymousey]

Salvation is by grace through the blood of Christ alone. It's His sacrifice, plus nothing else. His blood is sufficient.

Kabowd, thanks for your concern.

But I cannot understand why would you see Baptism as a 'work,' or why do you think that Baptism would add anything to Christ's free gift of salvation?

Baptism doesn't take away from the fact that salvation is free and it is only by faith in God's grace, through the shed Blood of the Lord Jesus.

But we have our part that we must do. For example, the Lord Jesus says: "come unto Me..." so, we have to come. It is also written "take the water of life freely.." so, we have to take... That is our part in it. So is salvation. We have to take it as the Lord directed.

The Bible says; repent, get baptised for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the Holy Spirit. All that is free, but it is our responsibility to obtain them.

It seems to me, that people are so worried not to claim any merit in salvation, that they even deny the procedure Christ appointed us to follow in order to receive the free gift of salvation.

Imagine that a rich man stands in the market place, and he offers gold coins, for the taking. The coins are entirely free, but only those will possess one who take it. So it is with Baptism. Salvation is free, it is by faith alone, and you show your faith by obeying Christ, and get baptised. We have to follow God's procedure in order to receive it, but it is FREE!

In my previous post I mentioned the procedure one must go through in order to receive salvation.

I believe that this is totally biblical, and solid, and it doesn't take anything away from Christ's merit.

Edited May 7, 2007 by graymousey

[graymousey]

I must add one more thing, and this is to everybody who participated in this thread:

If the biblical example would be followed, then we wouldn't even have this confusion.

In the Bible, when somebody believed, Baptism followed immediately, and so, all was well.

Now some people redefined the meaning of Baptism, and they declare that it is not important, and they confuse Baptism with "works"

but Baptism is not a work, and it doesn't take away from Christ's merit, and it doesn't add anything to God's salvation, which is free, and is by faith alone and by God's grace alone. Baptism is simply the road one must take in order to receive God's free gift.

[exrockstar]

i think everyone has taken this thead and went different directions with it. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Floatingaxe]

I must add one more thing, and this is to everybody who participated in this thread:

If the biblical example would be followed, then we wouldn't even have this confusion.

In the Bible, when somebody believed, Baptism followed immediately, and so, all was well.

Now some people redefined the meaning of Baptism, and they declare that it is not important, and they confuse Baptism with "works"

but Baptism is not a work, and it doesn't take away from Christ's merit, and it doesn't add anything to God's salvation, which is free, and is by faith alone and by God's grace alone. Baptism is simply the road one must take in order to receive God's free gift.

[HAZARD]

Is it possible to be saved without Baptism? Is Baptism necessary for salvation?

Thanks for the replies.

Hi.

No! Baptism alone does not save one soul.

Baptism is a symbol of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and it is a testimony to all the world that the individual has been saved from a life of sin and that the individual is now walking in newness of life.

It is only people who are followers of Jesus that are commanded to be baptized. (Read Matt. 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; and Acts 2:38-39).

The repentant thief on the cross at Jesus crucifiction was never baptized yet Jesus told him that "To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43).

So the truth is Baptism alone is actually not necessary for salvation. The purpose of baptism is not to save the soul, sanctify one, or make us children of God, Jesus did that through His death and resurrection. The sole purpose of baptism is plainly taught as being figurative and not litterally a clensing from sin.

The palsied man of Matt. 9:1-7 was saved without water baptism: "Jesus seeing their faith [not their water baptism] said . . . thy sins be forgiven thee . . . the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins." Jesus did not baptize one person in all His ministry but He did remit sins of many people (John 4:2). This is sufficient proof that sins can be remitted without water baptism. There are many cases of remission of sins and healing which were done by faith without water baptism (Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34; 10:52; Luke 7:48' 17:19; 18:42; Acts 3:16).

An unnamed woman sinner was forgiven her sins before and without water baptism. Jesus said, "Her sins, which are many are forgiven . . . thy sins be forgiven . . . thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace (Luke 7:36-50).

Many, many more Scriptural examples can be found in the Bible which proves baptism alone does not save anyone and never has saved one soul from Hell.. Jesus death and resurrection saves us, not water baptism.

[RustyAngeL]

Your salvation has nothing to do with baptism. You can be saved and never be baptized. We get baptised we wish to follow Jesus. However you do not need to be baptized to be saved. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Me." You will notice that nowhere in that verse do you see anything about baptism.

[Eliyahuw]

Salvation is by grace through the blood of Christ alone. It's His sacrifice, plus nothing else. His blood is sufficient.

Kabowd, thanks for your concern.

But I cannot understand why would you see Baptism as a 'work,' or why do you think that Baptism would add anything to Christ's free gift of salvation?

people are teaching that you are not saved without baptism. thats a false teaching. Salavtion is a free gift, secured by Christ through his blood. All that is required is that you belive in Christ, and repent of your sin. YOu cannot be baptised unless you repent. Baptism is a outward sign of a inward change. IF theres a inward change then you are saved already.

Christs blood IS ALL THAT IS NECESSARY for salvation! nothing else is required.

Baptism doesn't take away from the fact that salvation is free and it is only by faith in God's grace, through the shed Blood of the Lord Jesus.

Whoa wait a second!!!! it is NOT BY FAITH!!!!! Nope wrong! alert alert, danger danger!!!

IT IS BY GRACE, NOT BY FAITH, BUT BY GRACE through FAITH.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The Bible says; repent, get baptised for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the Holy Spirit. All that is free, but it is our responsibility to obtain them.

It says repent and be baptised ...... for the remission of sins, and gift of the holy ghost.

repent for the remission of Sins and be baptized for teh gift of the holy ghost.

it is NOT a requirement to be baptized for the remission of sins, that is covered in the blood of christ.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me, that people are so worried not to claim any merit in salvation, that they even deny the procedure Christ appointed us to follow in order to receive the free gift of salvation.

Christ only set one proceedure to be Saved.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Imagine that a rich man stands in the market place, and he offers gold coins, for the taking. The coins are entirely free, but only those will possess one who take it. So it is with Baptism.

Your equating baptism with salvation???

Salvation is free, it is by faith alone, and you show your faith by obeying Christ, and get baptised. We have to follow God's procedure in order to receive it, but it is FREE!

In my previous post I mentioned the procedure one must go through in order to receive salvation.

Again, this is FALSE. you need to go back and study it again! Salvation is NOT BY FAITH! It has never been by Faith, it is BY GRACE. Grace is God's forgiving mercy (Romans 11:6; Ephesians 2:5).

And its BY GRACE ONLY through Faith that we recieve salvation. BIG BIG BIG BIG Difference from what your saying!!!!

I believe that this is totally biblical, and solid, and it doesn't take anything away from Christ's merit.

nope its not biblical. your in error my friend.

[exrockstar]

one day im going to address the "born of water and of the Spirit."

However, I am still in seminary school so im a little rough around the edges

when trying to present an exegesis.

Would it matter anyways? because even if it was brought to life in greek it would

still go over people's head.

Even in plain english one can see something looking back at you.

Did Christ say the same thing twice or was he playing with Necodemus' mind by changing the prerequisites?

Christ says first time:

John 3:3-5

3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"

then he says a second time:

5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

we know someone isnt born again when they are dipped in water.

we know they are born again when they are saved.

Christ says later "7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

1 Peter 1 says: 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

again one day im going to address the "born of water and of the Spirit" through an exegesis in my lifetime if God permits.

... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Eliyahuw]

So the truth is Baptism alone is actually not necessary for salvation. The purpose of baptism is not to save the soul, sanctify one, or make us children of God, Jesus did that through His death and resurrection. The sole purpose of baptism is plainly taught as being figurative and not litterally a clensing from sin.

Hazard,

Read these verses -

Romans 6:3-6 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Through baptism we are buried with Christ into death and raised in his likeness and if we are planted together with him into that death we are raised in the likeness of his resurection.

Also, look at the last verse. It clearly states that the body of sin is destroyed. Here are other examples -

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Couple this together with what Acts 2:38 say in that we are baptized for the remission of our sins.

I know it is rally hard for people to grasp, but if you put all of the scriptures together you will see that the blood of Christ that washes away our sins is in the waters of baptism. When Christ was pierced on his side blood and water came out. This was the first sign for us. Also this verse -

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

The water that 1 John 5:8 is not Baptism. the new life implanted in Christians, for that is the sense in which John's Master had used the word "water": "The water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up unto everlasting life."

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We are baptized in water where the blood is for the remission of sins, and we know that remission is to take away, and we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You are also not reading this verse right, Repenting is for remission of sins, and baptism is for the gift of the holy ghost. You can be saved without the gifts of the holy ghost.

Baptism does nothing for sin except maybe get you wet. thats it.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

There is no way that baptism is just an outward sign of being saved because there are to many things going on because of baptism.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Christ isn't left out in baptism, he is the reason why we get baptized. Even here we see that we put on Christ through baptism.

Again, your reading the verses in your own understanding. I doesn't say baptism washes awaysins. Christs blood is the ONLY thing that can wash away sins.

[rtwo]

Question:

Are we finding reasons to NOT be baptised? Is there something against baptism in general; a reason people don't -want- to obey that particular command? We seem to be splitting a lot of, frankly, semantic hairs here, and I'm just wondering why we're trying so hard to justify ignoring baptism...

God said to do it... if it's not part of the salvation process, so be it. Okay. I agree. But God still said to do it. God also said to feed the orphan and the poor; to take care of the widow -- once again, this is not something on which our salvation is contingent -- but God did say to do it. It's not proclaiming "works-based" salvation to remind you that as Christians we have responsibility to God -- just like it's not legalism to remind you that God wants you to be baptised.