Are there different levels of punishment in hell?

January 17, 2004

Uhhhh....if you was saved....and fell away.....and end up in torments

What were you ever saved from?

How could you claim being saved at all? If you wind up in the lake of fire, what did you ever get saved FROM?

perhaps you should ask God that question, since He is the one who said it. i am glad you apologized for getting sidetracked though! we have enough threads hotly debating OSAS or not.

January 17, 2004

In the original tongues there were different terms for the world of unsaved spirits, shoeul, Gehenna and I think one other I forget. Only one of them was the Lake of Fire. The others are different spiritual states. If the Lake of fire is hell, then how come in Revelation it says that death and hell get cast into the Lake of fire? It doesn't say that all the unsaved will go to the Lake of Fire, only those who are not written in the book of life and it does not say that all the unsaved are missing from the book of life. What would God have to gain by tormenting people in the Lake of Fire who were basically good people who led good and honest lives and tried to do what was right? Doesn't it make more sense that He would have a plan of redemption for the decent and good people who were not evil? Only the wicked will be sent to the Lake of fire but even that in the original tongue was not eternal hellfire but meant ages. Isn't the whole point of punishment to help people to repent and be redeemed again? That's how I see it! The bible teaches there are at least 3 levels of heaven, so why couldn't there be levels of the unsaved as well. It seems the church had much to gain from these slight variances in meaning when they did the first translations from the Greek and Hebrew and thought other words might suit their cause a little better.

January 17, 2004

Hi,

I would have to say yes, because the bibles says that when someone that experiances God's salvation and then turns away his end will be worse then if he was never saved. Basicly Peter is saying it would have been better that he had never been saved then to get saved then turn away from God. His punishment will be worse then that of an unbeliever. This should be a strong warning to christians that think they can live a double life of sin and righteousness.

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state is become worse with them than the first. For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire.

(2Pe 2:20-22)

One translation reads:

They promise these newcomers freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, for if they're addicted to corruption--and they are--they're enslaved. If they've escaped from the slum of sin by experiencing our Master and Savior, Jesus Christ, and then slid back into that same old life again, they're worse than if they had never left. Better not to have started out on the straight road to God than to start out and then turn back, repudiating the experience and the holy command. They prove the point of the proverbs, "A dog goes back to its own vomit," and, "A scrubbed-up pig heads for the mud."

(2Pe 2:19-22)

How can it be better not to be saved, then to be saved and then fall away?

Uhhhh....if you was saved....and fell away.....and end up in torments

What were you ever saved from?

How could you claim being saved at all? If you wind up in the lake of fire, what did you ever get saved FROM?

Oh by the way, did you ever notice that the sow and the dog in 2 Peter2:20

remained a sow and a dog?

No evidence of a new creature, created unto good works, one who is created IN Christ Jesus. His workmanship.

You just can't get un-born-again!!

Very good post CWJ, right on!

January 17, 2004

pardon me for sounding ignorant... but who are the unsaved if not the ones who are not found in the book of life?

regarding the 7 levels of heaven, i've heard that... but usually from the lips of mormons. could you point me to some scriptures that discuss the 7 levels? i'd like to do some studying on that topic.

January 17, 2004

pardon me for sounding ignorant... but who are the unsaved if not the ones who are not found in the book of life?

I'm suggesting that some of the unsaved are written in the book of life because they have to check in the book. If all the unsaved were destined for hell then they would just be cast into the lake of fire without checking the book.

Sorry, it was 3 levels!

2 Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

CWJ · January 17, 2004

idolsmasher that's a good passage to discuss also!

January 17, 2004

idolsmasher, i'm not sure if we're on the same page or not... i'm thinking probably not. the third heaven in that scripture isn't referring to a level of "heaven" as in within the pearly gates... scripturally, the words "heaven" and "heavens" have more than one meaning.

the sky (our atmosphere)

space (outside our atmosphere)

and heaven (the spiritual realm)

Andrew007 · January 17, 2004

Okay.. I don't know what parabole it is, but the one where the men are working in the grape vine, and the men that worked 40 hours received that same as those that only worked for a short amount of time. How did Jesus jusifty giving them equal amounts? I don't remember. But it makes sense that this would be the same case. No? Maybe? Eh.. just came to me when I read this. What do you think?