Do You Go To Church?

[hupo]

Shalom Hupo,

Yeah, I'm sorry about that forum. I'm there, but it's very slow, hardly any posts. I'll keep looking for a good Messianic forum and let you know.

I guess you and I disagree about other's opinions. I think people's opinions are like "belly buttons" - everyone has one!! But in reality, to me anyway, no one's opinion makes the difference when it comes to following G-d. I am glad you feel concern from others in their posting of opinion, sometimes that is true and other times it is not. Some people think their opinions are more valid than others (not talking about anyone in particular, but in general) and they get upset when you disagree with their opinion. But hey, opinions are just that. I'll take the Word of G-d and the leading of the Holy Spirit over opinions any day!!

BUT, there is also a place for wise counsel. I just choose those people very carefully and make sure they are listening to the L-rd and not just giving opinion.

I feel you are wise enough and strong enough to discern what is important what what is not in other's opinions. Like eating a steak, keep the meat and spit out the gristle!

Hey Brother, I love you and think of you and your family often!! I hope and pray to one day come back to the Holy Land and visit with y'all again.

Well, Vickilynn, first things first... I too pray that we will meet again some day, preferably here but who knows? maybe we'll be floating your way some day

I like your picture of opinions..... belly buttons

Actually it isn't the opinion itself that is important in my eyes, although there are those too, but the spirit in which they are posted makes a lot of difference in the forum. I would assume any one in this forum is at least somewhat interested in other people's opinions or they wouldn't bother with the forum in the first place. But as you say... I too will take God's word over anyone's opinion any day....if it comes to that.

Blessings dear sister

[viajero]

What is "church" isn't it the Body of Christ. I am member of the Body of Christ. I don't choose to be a member on Saturday, Sunday or some other day. I am in the Church wherever I am, I am in it by faith. And I thank God for the way in which He has led me through the "wilderness", so that I am not dependent on christain social clubs, nice singing, endless tea and biscuits, or the need to uplift certain people as being much more than myself before God.

Like Seekeroftruth, I have lived in the Middle East, and have found that if you are standing on anything other than Christ Himself (i.e. organizations, good times, friends etc), then when the difficulties come, watch out! If God sees in your life for a "removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain", then trust Him, that He is bringing you to Himself, apart from all the superficiality that is in Christendom today.

Do I "go to church?" No, I am in His church endeavouring to be where He would have me to be for His Glory. Not my own, or anyone else's.

If you think that is what "church" is, you are missing the boat. You need to be concerned about the other's spiritual welfare. Seems like an ego thing to me to not fellowship. Iron sharpens iron, you know. If you aren't hanging your shield in the House, then what army are you in?

Missing what boat?? What is it that I think "church" is? I think I stated more what it isn't! "If we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another", and truly, our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. True fellowship comes from following Him, and is in Him. You are quoting out of context (iron sharpeneth iron). Do we need to be a member of some organization to be sharpened, and where is this about "hanging your shield in the house" coming from?

We need a covering. We need shepherding. What do you think God is raising us up to be? Solitary sheep? No. Sheep belong in a fold. Even missionary sheep need a shepherd and fellow sheep to cover them. Solitaries get eaten alive by wolves.

How did you get off on that line from what was said, "covering", "shepherding", "solitary". Everything you have said, where did you get it? Who said "solitaries" get eaten by lions? Who said I was solitary? Too much of the "teachings of man", and we no longer hear the voice of God, we interpret everything according to the teaching we receive. God wants us to grow up "till we all come in the unity of the faith, and the full knowledge of the Son of God . . . that we henceforth be no longer children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight and cunning of man". If you continue o move off the track of this thread and look for an argument to validate your own doctrine, try someone else. The dew doesn't settle on a stormy night.

[Iryssa]

How did you get off on that line from what was said, "covering", "shepherding", "solitary". Everything you have said, where did you get it? Who said "solitaries" get eaten by lions? Who said I was solitary? Too much of the "teachings of man", and we no longer hear the voice of God, we interpret everything according to the teaching we receive. God wants us to grow up "till we all come in the unity of the faith, and the full knowledge of the Son of God . . . that we henceforth be no longer children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight and cunning of man". If you continue o move off the track of this thread and look for an argument to validate your own doctrine, try someone else. The dew doesn't settle on a stormy night.

What axey is saying is that you--and all believers--DO need the fellowship of the Christian community.

We've been through this a lot on this board, people completely separating the Church (when I use an uppercase "C" that indicates the Body of Christ) from church (an organized group of Believers that meets together regularly).

Those two shouldn't be mutually exclusive. You should be meeting with the Church, and a good church is an excellent place to do that.

As far as where one finds evidence that we need other Believers:

If you read through acts, you see the community of Christians coming together in support and love, to help eachother out along the narrow path we follow. (Check out Acts 2:42-47 if you don't believe me)

If you're not involved in a community of Believers, there IS something lacking. Think of it this way:

Is it easier to defend a castle by oneself, or with a large army? Obviously it's a large army that would have a better chance of defending against attackers. We, as Christians, DO get attacked by the Enemy, and it is much easier to defend against his evil plans when we are surrounded by the love and support of a Christian community, people who can be there to lit us up in prayer and be there for us in all ways.

[GeneV]

Nicely put Iryssa

[hupo]

How did you get off on that line from what was said, "covering", "shepherding", "solitary". Everything you have said, where did you get it? Who said "solitaries" get eaten by lions? Who said I was solitary? Too much of the "teachings of man", and we no longer hear the voice of God, we interpret everything according to the teaching we receive. God wants us to grow up "till we all come in the unity of the faith, and the full knowledge of the Son of God . . . that we henceforth be no longer children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight and cunning of man". If you continue o move off the track of this thread and look for an argument to validate your own doctrine, try someone else. The dew doesn't settle on a stormy night.

What axey is saying is that you--and all believers--DO need the fellowship of the Christian community.

We've been through this a lot on this board, people completely separating the Church (when I use an uppercase "C" that indicates the Body of Christ) from church (an organized group of Believers that meets together regularly).

Those two shouldn't be mutually exclusive. You should be meeting with the Church, and a good church is an excellent place to do that.

As far as where one finds evidence that we need other Believers:

If you read through acts, you see the community of Christians coming together in support and love, to help eachother out along the narrow path we follow. (Check out Acts 2:42-47 if you don't believe me)

If you're not involved in a community of Believers, there IS something lacking. Think of it this way:

Is it easier to defend a castle by oneself, or with a large army? Obviously it's a large army that would have a better chance of defending against attackers. We, as Christians, DO get attacked by the Enemy, and it is much easier to defend against his evil plans when we are surrounded by the love and support of a Christian community, people who can be there to lit us up in prayer and be there for us in all ways.

I feel you are missing a point in what viajero is saying.

Yes we do need sheperding and that is what the Holy Spirit is doing in our lives, if we accept Him of course.

Yet we see in human history, flocks of sheep that really turned sour when the shepards were bad.

Just take the Nazi regime. Should we be that kind of sheep?

Should we be blind sheep. I don't think so. God gave us free choice. Why? to choose to be mindless sheep?!

I would assume viajero goes to "Church" when he finds one that is God-based and not human-doctrine-based.

I sometimes think we join "church" for the same reason we whistle in the dark. We are afraid to be alone.

That is NOT a good reason to join a church.

We would all be better off if we made sure the flock we join is God's flock.

Blessings

[viajero]

Is the Christian community only in buildings? And I don't believe that was only what "axey" was saying. And there are many other good verses about having fellowship other than hat you quoted, and don't forget the part about "selling all you have". Where do you find all these sayings about armies etc? Yes, we do get attacked by the enemy, but also get attacked very much by those closest to us. And as I have stated my beliefs here, all I am receiving is attacks.

"A good church" as opposed to a bad church, again, "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", our idea of good and evil, differs from God's, of this I am sure.

Goodbye

[Floatingaxe]

How did you get off on that line from what was said, "covering", "shepherding", "solitary". Everything you have said, where did you get it? Who said "solitaries" get eaten by lions? Who said I was solitary? Too much of the "teachings of man", and we no longer hear the voice of God, we interpret everything according to the teaching we receive. God wants us to grow up "till we all come in the unity of the faith, and the full knowledge of the Son of God . . . that we henceforth be no longer children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight and cunning of man". If you continue o move off the track of this thread and look for an argument to validate your own doctrine, try someone else. The dew doesn't settle on a stormy night.

What axey is saying is that you--and all believers--DO need the fellowship of the Christian community.

We've been through this a lot on this board, people completely separating the Church (when I use an uppercase "C" that indicates the Body of Christ) from church (an organized group of Believers that meets together regularly).

Those two shouldn't be mutually exclusive. You should be meeting with the Church, and a good church is an excellent place to do that.

As far as where one finds evidence that we need other Believers:

If you read through acts, you see the community of Christians coming together in support and love, to help eachother out along the narrow path we follow. (Check out Acts 2:42-47 if you don't believe me)

If you're not involved in a community of Believers, there IS something lacking. Think of it this way:

Is it easier to defend a castle by oneself, or with a large army? Obviously it's a large army that would have a better chance of defending against attackers. We, as Christians, DO get attacked by the Enemy, and it is much easier to defend against his evil plans when we are surrounded by the love and support of a Christian community, people who can be there to lit us up in prayer and be there for us in all ways.

Excellent, Iryssa!

The devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he MAY devour. Often that is the solitary sheep, sadly, separated by whatever means.

[Iryssa]

Is the Christian community only in buildings?

Just WHERE did I even IMPLY that?? In fact, as I recall, what I said was "church is an excellent place [to join with the community of Believers]"

And I don't believe that was only what "axey" was saying.

That's funny, because Axey seems to be in agreement with me.

And there are many other good verses about having fellowship other than hat you quoted, and don't forget the part about "selling all you have".

I don't deny that, never have.

Where do you find all these sayings about armies etc?

That one I made up as an ILLUSTRATION (I never presented it as though it were an example straight out of the Bibles), through use of common sense. We are still allowed to use common sense.

Yes, we do get attacked by the enemy, but also get attacked very much by those closest to us.

That is one of the many ways the Enemy attacks us, actually. I never said people in churches were perfect and that we would never be hurt by people...but IN GENERAL, fellow Believers can help us.

And as I have stated my beliefs here, all I am receiving is attacks.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I also feel you put on an attacking tone as well with your initial post.

"A good church" as opposed to a bad church, again, "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", our idea of good and evil, differs from God's, of this I am sure.

Not if we have an idea of Good and Evil that is properly instructed by what the Bible has to say. The Bible is the Word of God, and is therefore entirely capable of showing us GOD's perspective of good and evil. We have the capacity to learn from that and to put it into action.

[Iryssa]

Where did Vajero say he didnt have fellowship with the Body of Christ. I think that was assumed because he said that he doesnt got to a orgainized "church". You do need fellowship to grow, but it must be FELLOWSHIP...meaning each of members adding on to one another.

I didn't say he wasn't fellowshipping, either. I was explaining Floatingaxe's meaning.

[Smalcald]

Well I really don't like organizations or crowds or groups of people either. If I had my rather I wouldn't go to worship services. But I need what communion offers, and I can't have that alone or by simply making it up with some like minded people, I need to hear the Word preached, and I like hearing the Psalms recited aloud, it also strengthens me to make a public confession of both faith and my sins. Plus what I my to say to my children how are they to see that Christians really exist and have a function? So I go and we belong warts and all. We do need these organizations, we even need buildings, yes we do, the horror; we need a place to be together on a consistent basis and we need to have a place that we can go for decades over the course of our life, a place to belong.

Church was so important to the original believers that they sold everything they owned and gave it to the congregation, they lived at church, and they ate their meals at church.