Legalization of marijuana

[DarkNebulaWelder]

I would say that WISE people, though, do not do drugs.

It recently came out that Carl Sagan was a big reefer fan, although we could have taken a clue from the long-time involvement of his wife and many of his friends in the legalization movement.

I think Sagan would fall under the category of "intelligent, but not wise."

My thinking exactly!

Same here; of course, I never looked to him for his wisdom...I looked to him for scientific insight

[The Lorax]

Well, that's no big surprise....but I wasn't aware that he was involved in legalizing it. I'm a fairly strong admirer of his, and I had no idea!!!

Sagan smoked but I don't think he was directly involved in the movement like his wife and some of his colleagues were.

[ayin jade]

I would eliminate the useless FDA too if i could.

The FDA is the reason why we in the US didnt have the problem with thalidomide babies that they had in Europe. I vote to keep the FDA. Without them, you would be the person drugs are tested on, because there would be no regulation of safety, no requirements for any drug to be tested. It would be put out untested, unregulated for safety or efficacy.

No thanks.

[ayin jade]

Christians who are pro legalization of marijuana always use this verse. Would you also then take poison hemlock? It is an herb. Your verse is pre-fall from grace. Since the fall, not everything is of benefit for humans.

Actually yes i would take hemlock. its a medicine too. this is what it is used for

On account of its peculiar sedative action on the motor centres, Hemlock juice (Succus conii) is prescribed as a remedy in cases of undue nervous motor excitability, such as teething in children, epilepsy from dentition. cramp, in the early stages of paralysis agitans, in spasms of the larynx and gullet, in acute mania, etc. As an inhalation it is said to relieve cough in bronchitis, whooping-cough, asthma, etc.

Poison hemlock is Conium maculatum. Not the same plant. Would you use poison hemlock?

[Eliyahuw]

I would eliminate the useless FDA too if i could.

The FDA is the reason why we in the US didnt have the problem with thalidomide babies that they had in Europe. I vote to keep the FDA. Without them, you would be the person drugs are tested on, because there would be no regulation of safety, no requirements for any drug to be tested. It would be put out untested, unregulated for safety or efficacy.

No thanks.

You mean like vioxx, and baycol?? those were untested and approved of by the FDA. Who knows how many others were untested before being released by teh FDA.

[Eliyahuw]

Christians who are pro legalization of marijuana always use this verse. Would you also then take poison hemlock? It is an herb. Your verse is pre-fall from grace. Since the fall, not everything is of benefit for humans.

Actually yes i would take hemlock. its a medicine too. this is what it is used for

On account of its peculiar sedative action on the motor centres, Hemlock juice (Succus conii) is prescribed as a remedy in cases of undue nervous motor excitability, such as teething in children, epilepsy from dentition. cramp, in the early stages of paralysis agitans, in spasms of the larynx and gullet, in acute mania, etc. As an inhalation it is said to relieve cough in bronchitis, whooping-cough, asthma, etc.

Poison hemlock is Conium maculatum. Not the same plant. Would you use poison hemlock?

Yes I would! That is the same exact plant that i posted the uses for.

Botanical: Conium maculatum (LINN.)

Family: N.O. Umbelliferae

On account of its peculiar sedative action on the motor centres, Hemlock juice (Succus conii) is prescribed as a remedy in cases of undue nervous motor excitability, such as teething in children, epilepsy from dentition. cramp, in the early stages of paralysis agitans, in spasms of the larynx and gullet, in acute mania, etc. As an inhalation it is said to relieve cough in bronchitis, whooping-cough, asthma, etc.

---Preparations and Dosages---Powdered leaves 1 to 3 grains. Fluid extract of leaves, 5 to 10 drops. Fluid extract of seeds, 2 to 5 drops. Tincture seeds, B.P., 1/2 to 1 drachm. Juice of leaves, B.P., 1 to 2 drachms. Solid extract, 2 to 6 grains. Ointment, B.P.

[Eliyahuw]

Reasons why drugs should be legalized.

If there is no victim, there is no crime. Individuals have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit as long as they don't harm anyone else. So if a person chooses to use drugs, that is their right -- but if they go out and drive under the influence and injure someone in an accident, that is a crime.

A second reason is practical. Prohibition just doesn't work. It didn't work for alcohol in the 1920s and it isn't working now. According to the Drug Policy Forum, the rate of addiction in 1914 was about 1.3% of the population, and hard drugs -- drugs like cocaine -- were readily available on grocery shelves. In 1979, before the big "War on Drugs" crackdown, the addiction rate was still 1.3%. And in 1998? Still about 1.3%.

People who are going to use drugs are going to use them whether or not they are illegal. Why spend taxpayers' money to arrest millions of people a year for drug possession? Why impose mandatory sentences for drug users that are longer than those given to violent criminals?

Drug prohibition, just like alcohol prohibition, has lead to a black market and increased the power of gangsters. According to FBI data, one out of three robberies and burglaries is committed to obtain money for high-priced, black market drugs. Up to 40% of the murders in major cities and 20% of the killings nationwide occur in the drug trade. Innocent children and police officers are often caught in the crossfire.

Prohibition enriches gangsters. At least $40 billion each year goes to the criminal underworld as profits from drug sales, according to the Drug Policy Foundation. As recent news stories show, drug prohibition corrupts police. Drug profits often tempt public servants to become criminals themselves. Prohibition also endangers police officers who risk their lives enforcing prohibition -- but each drug dealer caught is immediately replaced.

Drug laws frighten people away from admitting they have a problem and seeking treatment. And drug laws prohibit users from access to clean needles and lead to the spread of diseases such as AIDS. Many American AIDS cases are traceable to the sharing of infected needles by drug users.

Drug laws jeopardize our freedom. Just as "protecting the children" is an excuse for violating First Amendment rights to free speech, so drugs are used as an excuse for violating Fourth Amendment rights to be free from the search and seizure of your property. The application of racketeering laws (RICO) to drug cases has made the seizure of property routine. Without ever making an arrest, police have confiscated family farms, motor homes, cars, and other property. Police routinely seize what they consider unreasonable amounts of cash from travelers under suspicion that the money is being used for a drug buy. The owner must then prove that the money is innocent.

The drug laws are also applied in a racist manner. Young black men -- who are all drug dealers in the minds of the police -- are subjected to what amounts to harassment if they drive a nice car, visit certain neighborhoods, or just go out to a club. According to government statistics, while only 15% of all drug users are black, 74% of the people in prison for drug crimes are black. Blacks make up about 12% of the population.

people should have the right to make their own decisions and that the War on Drugs is ineffective, expensive, and has led us closer to a police state. We should hold people who commit crimes or cause accidents while under the influence of any drug (including alcohol) fully liable for their actions. Repeal of all laws and regulations which impede the establishment of private drug treatment programs.

[rtwo]

that was well-stated, Eliyahu.

[Ovedya]

The evidence is proven by many examples, one of which I gave with regard to promescuity leading to increases in STDs and abortions. Do I really need to cite those sources to you?

People have sex without drugs get std's without drugs and have abortions without drugs.

You misunderstood what I wrote. Those were examples of lawlessness bringing about destruction. Essentially you are advocating lawlessness with regard to the drug laws.

You gave the example of Denmark but didn't mention the fact that there are only about 5 million people there - total. That's roughly the same number of people that inhabit Los Angeles (In fact I think more people are in L.A.). Plus the fact that you didn't cite any sources that show that there were significant decreases in drug trafficking and crime directly related to a change in policy regarding drug usage.

LA has over 12 million people in it.

Atlanta has 5 million...

Thus proving my point.

And yet with the increase in availability even the most critical and intelligent thinkers are likely to "experiment." Alcoholics aren't addicted to alcohol because one day they woke up and said, "I think I'll destroy my entire life by drinking booze like a fish for the next 20 years."

You would be wrong on that. intellegent people don't do drugs.

Intelligent people do a lot of stupid things, including drugs. You happen to be interacting with a couple of intelligent people here who have done drugs.

Joe kills a family of five after driving under the influence. Joe gets take to the hospital to get treated for his minor injuries. Joe gets arrested, put in jail, arraigned in court, sent to jail and supported by my taxes for the next 20 years - or better yet, for only 13 years, after which he's required to attend drug rehab classes supported by my tax dollars also.

But hey....it's all "Joe's business" right? "Riiight"

the laws apparantly would work if he goes and does time.

Same thing happens with DUI. As long as they don't make someone a victim then joe could do all the dope he wanted til it killed him

Conservatively about 100,000 deaths are attributed to the consumption of alcohol each year. That number includes drunk drivers. Let's take the 2005 figure that I found online and say that for 2006 there were 17,000 death directly caused by drunk drivers. Not considering the number of lives that were directly affected by excessive alcohol consumption, if we conservatively estimated that, for every life taken by a drunk driver five other lives were affected (Friends, family, etc.), our figure comes to 85,00 people whose lives are directly affected by drunk drivers - both those that are killed by drunk drivers and those whose lives were significantly affected by those deaths. Now, factor back in the total number of people killed by alcoholism each year and we're talking about a half a million people whose lives are directly affected by the consumption of alcohol.

That's just alcohol alone! We haven't even begun to consider the numbers related to methamphetamine, crack cocaine, heroin, and other hard drugs. Each year millions - millions - of people have been killed or had their lives drastically change by drugs and alcohol. And you are advocating that they should all be made legal??!!! You would actually expect those numbers to decrease rather than increase? You actually believe that taxpayers would ultimately benefit from the legalization of drugs?

Let me ask you, are you a Christian? Would Jesus advocate the free ussage of all drugs? Would He likewise say, "Well if they want to kill themselves, let them."?

[Ovedya]

Methamphetamine causes psychosis. Many addicts require psychiatric treatment for life, and most can't afford it. That means they burden social programs funded by our tax dollars.

....So let's make it legal.

Sorry but they don't get help from social programs either. there is no help out there for a methhead.

Have you read up on any of this at all?

http://www.ag.state.nd.us/MethSummit/Impac...-JohnDuncan.pdf (This is just in the state of Oklahoma!)

Here's another study: http://www.naco.org/Content/ContentGroups/...-MethSurvey.pdf

And here's one on the impact of meth on the Child Welfare System: http://www.childwelfare.gov/responding/meth.cfm

Overall, in every area of our society - from the home to the social welfare system meth ussage is a burden on our society.

...And you want to make it legal?!