Did anyone see the debate on TV last night?

[Kabowd]

If He can use a donkey to speak, He can use anyone!

Well yes, God did use a donkey to speak to Balaam, but Balaam was an idiot so He kept it on his level. But in the New Testament, God used people such as Paul. I don't see anywhere that God was speaking out of Paul's ass [donkey].

[eric]

If He can use a donkey to speak, He can use anyone!

Well yes, God did use a donkey to speak to Balaam, but Balaam was an idiot so He kept it on his level. But in the New Testament, God used people such as Paul. I don't see anywhere that God was speaking out of Paul's ass [donkey].

er..ummm.......yeah.....right.

[MeCajunboy]

I don't remember which news program it was on (it was one of the major networks like ABC, CBS, or NBC). But the debate was moderated by the news anchor and they allowed questions from the audience. The debate was edited but was fairly interesting anyway. I couldn't help but feel for Comfort/Cameron as I know what it's like after engaging in it here on Worthy. I kept saying to my wife, "I know exactly what the atheists are going to say, I've been there too many times" and "this is what I'm talking about, it's seems absolutely futile to try and talk sense to someone dead set on arguing against me".

I've recently hit a lull in my desire to debate the existence of God and/or Christ anymore. I had purchased several books on the topic. Researched the internet. Tried to learn from some of the pros. But right now I'm feeling as though it's useless and that my time could be better spent on other endeavors.

One thing that did happen as a result of my debate time, I became somewhat frustrated with the Christian teaching community (right or wrongly so). The truth is that we believe because He let's us believe. Throughout most of my Christian life, it seemed as though it was always implied by the teachers I listened to or read that the Christian leaders of the world had all the answers to counter all the arguments and the truth is, they don't. I felt misled to an extent. I'm the type of person who would rather hear the truth...all of it...good or bad. I suppose it's not their fault. They were teaching what they know, not what they don't know. Yet I was thoroughly embarrassed and frustrated when engaged in debate to learn what the reality was by failing. I'm perfectly OK with living by faith and faith alone. Yet I think we set ourselves up for failure when we operate with half the information. Especially young people as they go off into the world. They need to know the truth. Instead, they get blindsided by some atheist science professor or such and are swayed into thinking they were intentionally decieved by the Christian community. This makes me sick and angry.

Oh well! Got that off my chest...

Interesting that we are seeing a debate on national TV. The moderator seemed to think there was no clear winner and that few in the audience change their minds from the way they were thinking when they went in.

Cajunboy:::: What's even more interesting is the moderator doesn't even realize that Kirk and Ray WON their victory long ago for God! And there not so concerned that mortal man still feels the need to judge them (moderator) And you as well, my brave friend in Christ. You need not be concerned with what mortal man will judge you. That judgement holds no weight with God and not even "we Christians!" We too know you are helping us to win the battle for God ! And the fact that we are fighting for all mankind pleases God to all ends of the Earth !

Be Blessed

Cajunboy

[asap]

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

[Guest]

Does anyone know if there is any further installments of this debate planned?

I hope not, I think everything has been covered.......except..........On whose authority are we to judge who has, and who hasn't, the qualifications to act as an apologist. The only one who knows God's calling on his life is the one called, all else is assumption...... I am an old man and God has yet to tell me of my calling........well.....maybe tomorrow.

Amen Brother, Amen!

I Rejoice The Gospel Went Forth.....

Rejoice evermore.

1 Thessalonians 5:16

I Prayed and Still Pray The Word Takes Root.....

Pray without ceasing.

1 Thessalonians 5:17

I Thank The LORD For His Evangelists Who Proclaimed The Gospel.....

In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

1 Thessalonians 5:18

I Thank God For The Holy Ghost's Anointing Over These Debates.....

Quench not the Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:19

I Rejoice In These Preachers.....

Despise not prophesyings.

1 Thessalonians 5:20

Glory! Glory! Glory!

To The KING!

Hosanna! Hosanna! Hosanna!

To The KING!

Thank You Lord for Your Preachers and for Your Teachers.

We lift them up to You Lord

And pray they persevere through any persecution to present Your Gospel to a dying world.

In Jesus

Love, Your Joe

[Vickilynn]

If He can use a donkey to speak, He can use anyone!

Well yes, God did use a donkey to speak to Balaam, but Balaam was an idiot so He kept it on his level. But in the New Testament, God used people such as Paul. I don't see anywhere that God was speaking out of Paul's ---[donkey].

Shalom, Kabowd,

Your sentence was crude and uncalled for. It was reported.

You are the one objecting to sarcasm. Please re-read your own post and examine your motives.

So, you're saying that G-d did not use anyone before the book of Matthew?

The WHOLE BIBLE is our teacher.

2 Timothy 3

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

G-d used Moses as well, who was NOT an idiot, but declared he no speaking skills. (Exodus 4:10)

Moses was told to trust G-d and He would give Him what he needed to speak. (v 11-12)

Moses did not trust and asked for a mouthpiece. (v 13)

This made G-d angry, for Moses would not trust in anything but HIS OWN INABILITIES! He would not step out in faith and trust G-d to provide, as G-d said He would! (v 14)

G-d was telling Moses to trust in G-d's power to give him the words and the skill, not himself! G-d was angry because Moses was looking at his OWN inability, not G-d's power and Moses refused to look past his own lack of skill. But that wasn't what G-d wanted. He didn't need someone with speaking abilities or He wouldn't have chosen Moses.

Even though Aaron had the ABILITY, that wasn't enough, he still needed G-d to provide the words via Moses. (v 15)

G-d still used Moses, in his inabilities, his insecurities and his lack of trust.

Moses spoke by the power of G-d.

Moses was given power from G-d.

You can never prove (BY THE SCRIPTURES) that someone is not "qualified" by G-d's standards to speak for Him when G-d's abilities are all we need, not our own. G-d tells us to trust HIM and HE will do the work in us for HIS glory, not our own.

The bottom line is, WHOM do we trust - man or G-d?

I'll choose G-d.

Exodus 4

10 But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue."

11 Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? 12Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."

13But he said, "Oh, my Lord, please send someone else."

14Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses and he said, "Is there not Aaron, your brother, the Levite? I know that he can speak well. Behold, he is coming out to meet you, and when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart.

15You shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth, and I will be with your mouth and with his mouth and will teach you both what to do. 16He shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be your mouth, and you shall be as God to him. 17And take in your hand this staff, with which you shall do the signs."

[Vickilynn]

If He can use a donkey to speak, He can use anyone!

Well yes, God did use a donkey to speak to Balaam, but Balaam was an idiot so He kept it on his level. But in the New Testament, God used people such as Paul. I don't see anywhere that God was speaking out of Paul's --- [donkey].

Shalom,

More on your assertion that in the New Testament, the standard for speakers was people "such as Paul."

We also have Peter, who was known to have a chronic case of "foot in mouth" disease. YET, everytime he messed up, he came back to Jesus and was used mightily.

Peter had no speaking skill of his own. YET, under the power of the Holy Spirit, he spoke the anointed Word and it was the WORD that changed lives, not Peter or his skill.

This is the point. It is the Word of G-d that has the power, not man.

[Vickilynn]

I never did find out who won. So who won?

Shalom Artsylady,

Actually, G-d won.

In debates the "winner" is only by man's subjective opinion.

However, in this instance, G-d was lifted up, His Word was proclaimed and we don't know how many seeds were planted in the hearts of those watching! We will only know in Heaven.

Thank G-d there are courageous men such as these who are willing to trust G-d rather than their own abilities. G-d will use them more than those who rely on their own strengths.

[Kabowd]

If He can use a donkey to speak, He can use anyone!

Well yes, God did use a donkey to speak to Balaam, but Balaam was an idiot so He kept it on his level. But in the New Testament, God used people such as Paul. I don't see anywhere that God was speaking out of Paul's --- [donkey].

Shalom,

More on your assertion that in the New Testament, the standard for speakers was people "such as Paul."

We also have Peter, who was known to have a chronic case of "foot in mouth" disease. YET, everytime he messed up, he came back to Jesus and was used mightily.

Peter had no speaking skill of his own. YET, under the power of the Holy Spirit, he spoke the anointed Word and it was the WORD that changed lives, not Peter or his skill.

This is the point. It is the Word of G-d that has the power, not man.

lol...awww, now don't go getting your knickers in a knot (I don't even know what knickers are by the way..lol)

It's ironic that you are using Peter as your example to prove your point. Peter is who I quoted earlier, who said we should all be prepared to be apologists

There's a verse in Acts 4, which I'm assuming you're elluding to, that refers to Peter and John as being "unlearned"....however it is a misinterpretation to suggest that they were ignorant and uneducated or unskilled.

1. Properly understood, the Jewish leaders were stating that Peter and John had not completed formal rabbinic training. This has nothing to do with their intellect, or their ability to communicate in general.

2. This was a desciption of Peter in the early stages of his ministry. By the time he wrote his first epistle (30 years later), you can see a VAST amount of growth and knowledge. We see in 1 Peter 5:12 for instance, that Peter had so educated himself and devoted himself to study, that he was prepared to debate a group of Greek Christians. Sorry, but Peter is the wrong poster-boy to choose for the campaign for ignorance..lol.

Thus, once again, you're only helping prove my point. Not that I needed it, but thanks!

[Vickilynn]

lol...awww, now don't go getting your knickers in a knot (I don't even know what knickers are by the way..lol)

Shalom K,

I'm not getting upset, but the truth is, your post was unbecoming of a Christian and it was rude and uncalled for.

If you don't wish to apologize, at least please refrain from that type of post in the future.

Knickers are pants.

It's ironic that you are using Peter as your example to prove your point. Peter is who I quoted earlier, who said we should all be prepared to be apologists

It's not ironic at all. In fact, if you're read my posts, I responded to your quoting of this Scripture to say that it proved my point, we ALL are qualified to be apologists. I don't really have the desire to play these stupid word games with you K. Whatever your opinion is, you are entitled to it. However, the Scriptures are clear that we are not to look to our own abilities as a deciding factor whether to step out and speak up for G-d. You can argue that all you want, but it is the Scriptural truth.

Man's abilities are nothing. G-d's power is everything. He chooses whom He chooses, and most times it's not the wise or arrogant. It's the humble and willing.

Also, you are not the one who decides whether these 2 men were called of G-d to do what they did. That is G-d's job, not yours.

Again, you have not proven BY SCRIPTURE that only a select few are called to defend the Gospel. It is your opinion. Enjoy it, but you have no right to insist it is Scripture or your opinion is more valid than someone else's. Sorry.

"Properly understood" hmmm? You do crack me up with your attitude.

Properly understood, those that choose to limit G-d by man's abilities or lack of them are not trusting G-d and as such are not pleasing G-d.

You can trust in man's abilities. I choose to trust in G-d's power.

Your assertions that Comfort and Cameron were not qualified to defend the Gospel is blown apart by the example of Peter. Apply these same standards to them as you did to Peter and John and you will see that to judge C&C any other way is hypocritical and not Scriptural. BTW, your assumption is incorrect, I wasn't alluding to Peter as being uneducated.

Peter embodies my point and you affirmed it once again. Apply your "proper understanding" to Comfort and Cameron and let G-d be the judge of who is qualified to speak for Him. It's His job anyway.