Did anyone see the debate on TV last night?

[exrockstar]

Cameron and Comfort got trounced! They were terrible.

No--they were clear, concise proclaimers of Truth.

What was terrible was the kindergartenesque presentation of the atheists.

What's with that stupid red dress?

i actually thought the lady in red was kinda cutie.

Her being non-Christian is a turn-ff though.

Shes still cutie. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

Boys are more cute.

i fixed my statement ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Floatingaxe]

christians in general are a laughing stock to atheists.

It doesn't matter. Jesus was mocked, also. Atheists are rude!

[exrockstar]

whysoblind,

I thank you for what youre saying.

to be quite honest I couldnt focus too much on kirk and that guy (keep forgeting his name).

I cringed every time the people applauded to the atheists.

I got a little bit of a tug from a comment i made a few pages ago when i said "if they wanted evidence

they should have sent some tongue speakers and that would of wowed them."

whether I believe or not in tongues. whether i redicule or love. whether I accept or reject....

HEELLLLLOOOOOOO I am in the same boat.

I am not going to be picked apart or be seperated from Christian groups by the world.

I AM INCLUDED and outsiders dont care about Christian biblical sect "technicalities."

However, I am glad cameron and that cat did the best that they could.

It's over. It's done. Rest assured God touched hearts through TV sets that night.

as i said before, it was a wake up call (if one heard it) ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Vickilynn]

I am sorry to admit, but very often I am embarrassed by the pathetic arguments made by christians on this site in the apologetics forum. "God did it" is NOT sufficient to convert an atheist or to "win" a debate. You must DISPROVE the atheists view by facts and logic. Not, "Because I said so," or even "because the Bible says so"(which is the same argument every religion uses).

Shalom WhySoBlind,

You know, you are totally entitled to your opinion, but I'll just say whether WE are embarrassed by Christian's arguments is not the issue. Debates are not "won" or "lost" by human standards. I think this is the point that some of y'all may be missing.

What seems right to US is not what matters in the spirit. G-d is at work and He will use even the most pathetic of apologists as long as they are listening to Him and speaking His Word.

It is so sad to me to see that human standards are applied to G-d as if we can limit Him by our own inadequacies. We can NEVER, EVER present or defend the Gospel in such a way as to change a heart. Only the Holy Spirit can.

Until people get that basic truth, they will never fully understand that Apologetics is not about ability to debate and fine-sounding arguments, but availability to be used by the Holy Spirit.

You can take all your scientific wisdom and it means nothing in a debate where G-d is presented and expect to change hearts. It won't happen. Only G-d can open the hearts. If you think we have to prove G-d by our intelligence, you are sadly mistaken.

I'm sad that you are embarrassed by your fellow brothers and sisters in the faith because it tells me that you trust in man's ability rather than G-d's power.

It's OK though, G-d is the One we need to please, not man. So, if you're ashamed, well, that's your choice. G-d is not ashamed. He looks for the humble and the one who is willing to be used, whether they have that book learnin' or not!!

[apothanein kerdos]

For the millionth time, your opinion is just that. You are not G-d and you don't know Kirk and Ray's purpose or calling.

Vick, watch the debate. It's not their calling at all.

[Vickilynn]

Until people get that basic truth, they will never fully understand that Apologetics is not about ability to debate and fine-sounding arguments, but availability to be used by the Holy Spirit.

the Holy Spirit would never use someone to make a faulty argument, as he is called "the Spirit of Truth, The Spirit of KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING, etc".

Shalom WSB,

Really? Can you prove that by Scripture? We will never make a mistake in our humanness?

Sorry, that is not a valid statement. The Holy Spirit will use someone as He wills and for HIS purposes.

Do you think that G-d is limited by our inadequacies? I don't.

We can NEVER, EVER present or defend the Gospel in such a way as to change a heart. Only the Holy Spirit can.

The bottom line is, do we trust our abilities or G-d's?

[Floatingaxe]

christians in general are a laughing stock to atheists.

It doesn't matter. Jesus was mocked, also. Atheists are rude!

Jesus was mocked on the basis of unbelief, not the stupidity of his argumentation. The Jews believed in God and at least claimed to worship him, they would have crucified Stephen Hawking had he been there, for example.

So that is really not even a comparable situation.

How ridiculous.

[firehill]

I usually dont agree with Ak on much of anything, but I will say that for the most part, christians have no clue what they are talking about in debates regarding cosmology or biology. Dont know the terminology, dont know the mathematics involved, don't know the evidences or lack thereof, don't know anything but, as the atheists say, "Goddidit"...

I am sorry to admit, but very often I am embarrassed by the pathetic arguments made by christians on this site in the apologetics forum. "God did it" is NOT sufficient to convert an atheist or to "win" a debate. You must DISPROVE the atheists view by facts and logic. Not, "Because I said so," or even "because the Bible says so"(which is the same argument every religion uses).

"Because I said so," was not a valid point when your mother used it on you, and it is not a valid argument in debate.

"Because the Bible says so" is an equally pathetic argument because you must first PROVE with empirical evidence that the Bible is THE WORD OF GOD. You cannot simply assume that, and until you can PROVE IT an atheist considers it a fairy tale. Quoting the Bible as "evidence" of its own validity is therefore NOT acceptable argument, even among christians, much less in a debate between a christian and an atheists.

---

For the last couple weeks I have been spending a lot of time on a physics forum and debating there. Not strictly about creation, but I do post on the subject often. Anyway, the point is, christians in general are a laughing stock to atheists. I say this as a christian, and I must honestly admit that in almost all cases, christians lose the debate with atheists, and that includes worthyboards with a few exceptions.

Fact is, many secular scientific principles ARE correct, else the computer you are using to read this would not exist, your car would not run, airplanes would not fly, and oh yes, your cable or satellite television wouldn't work either. When you therefore try to debate them concerning creation vs. the big bang, or creation vs evolution, anyone who actually knows junior high level physics and biology will INSTANTLY spot you if you do not know the terminology and basic laws and theories involved. I am also sad to say that just because you passed physics in high school or college does NOT mean you understand it at all, because american education system seems more important for everyone to graduate with an decent GPA than for everyone to actually learn something.

On numerous occasions I have seen well meaning christians on this site who seriously have no clue what cosmology, biology, or geology even is, at least as they relate to creation vs. big bang debates, or creation vs evolution, and yet they are trying to argue with someone who has years of study and experience in the field at the professional level...

How can a christian present proof against the Big Bang when almost without fail, they have NO CLUE what the sciences and maths involved are?

Seriously, how many people on this thread actually UNDERSTAND why Einstein's theory correctly predicts the motion of Mercury, and correctly predicts the bending of light around massive objects? If you do not understand why relativity makes acurate predictions, just how in the world do you intend to disprove the Big Bang, which is based on ...relativity?

---

Scientists are NOT part of a global conspiracy against christians. They are decieved, true, but not necessarily willingly. Additionally, many of them, the vast majority, are engaged in an honest, though misguided, effort to understand the universe around them.

---

Further, what is even more baffling and embarrassing is the fact taht Christians make up "urban legends" such as the "missing day theory" to try to "prove" creation?!?! The same christian who tells the atheist "thou shalt not lie", turns around and invents lies in order to convince the atheist?!

So yes, I am greatly ashamed and disappointed in the vast majority of my christian "brothers and sisters", as they seem to possess no honesty or critical thinking skills whatsoever.

This is true for christians in general, and it is true for a number of people on this site who try to debate with atheists.

Luke 16:8

... for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

A fool who happens to be a christian is still just a fool.

I agree with you WhySoBlind. I just didn't agree with all of AK's arguments.

[Floatingaxe]

How come AK can call you Vick, Vickilynn?

[Vickilynn]

For the millionth time, your opinion is just that. You are not G-d and you don't know Kirk and Ray's purpose or calling.

Vick, watch the debate. It's not their calling at all.

Shalom AK,

When you get to be G-d, you can make that call. Until then, it's not your place or mine.

I'd rather trust G-d than your opinion.