Can someone be a "saved" Christian and give merit to evoluti

[Guest]

And I would say that anyone who believes that people who give merit to evolution aren't saved needs to check their arrogance at the door...

check!

[Botz]

Reading on another site where this topic was being discussed, somebody quoted this...

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). A British wit once described "evil lution" as "the substance of links hoped for, the evidence of fossils not seen."

The vast majority of Believers are not scientists, but are prepared to believe a great deal of so-called scientific evidence about one thing or another. For example diet and life-style, global warming, population and natural resources etc. The difficulty comes when there is a conflict between what many scientists proclaim, herald or believe as true, and when this appears to be untrue weighed against personal faith or apparent biblical evidence....suddenly it matters.

In a way it might be comparable to obeying the 'Laws of the Land'. which a Believer will happily do until there becomes a conflict between obeying the state and its laws when they go against the things of G-d.... ( a case of rendering unto Caesar...)

Personally I do not believe there is a scrap of evidence either in the Scriptures, or in the fossil records that demonstrates or even tentatively suggests the theory of evolution from some kind of ape-creature into the wonderful examples of human-kind that you see before yourself each day in the bathroom mirror.

I feel that many Believers have acquiesced to the Status Quo, and want to separate themselves from the 'fundamentalist' label, and therefore have to some extent believed unsupported but currently popular evidence that had its genesis in the mind of man, rather than the heart of G-d.

Matthew 22:16 They sent their talmidim to him, along with the Herodians, saying, "Rabbi, we know that you are honest, and teach the way of God in truth, no matter who you teach, for you aren't partial to anyone.

Mat 22:17 Tell us therefore, what do you think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?"

Mat 22:18 But Yeshua perceived their wickedness, and said, "Why do you test me, you hypocrites?

Mat 22:19 Show me the tax money." They brought to him a denarius.

Mat 22:20 He asked them, "Whose is this image and inscription?"

Mat 22:21 They said to him, "Caesar's." Then he said to them, "Give therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Mat 22:22 When they heard it, they marveled, and left him, and went away.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Rom 1:19 because that which is known of God is revealed in them, for God revealed it to them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.

Rom 1:21 Because, knowing God, they didn't glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 and traded the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.

[Guest]

I am glad I am an Episcopalian so I don't have to check my brain at the door!!!

Oh yeah and just for the record I believe in Dinosaurs and Jesus- what a concept!

Me Too

[Guest]

I meant that the style in Hebrew writing is different. The style in other historical texts is different than Genesis 1 and 2, even within the Book of Genesis (prompting the popular JEDP theory...which I do not hold to and think is a HORRIBLE theory).

Amen!

You Go Bro!

[systemstrike_7]

And I would say that anyone who believes that people who give merit to evolution aren't saved needs to check their arrogance at the door...

check!

Soooo, you believe that if someone believes in theistic evolution, yet claim to be saved, are not actually saved? Do you believe that someone's salvation depends on their interpretation of Genesis 1 and/or 2?

[Guest]

Anything I can do to help.

Last time I checked the bible wasn't a science book.

And for you creation literalists - which creation story is true - gen. 1 or gen. 2?

Thanks!

I needed that!

Even my Dear Episcopalian Brothers read The Bible, I think!

So for you septics - which Creation story is true - Mark 10 or John 1?

Did Jesus lie?

Did The Holy Spirit lie?

Jesus Speaks on THE CREATION.....

Did Jesus lie?

Man says Jesus Lied.

It was evolution not God who made humans male and female.

Oh Christian!

Who Do You Believe!

Who Do You Think I Believe!

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Mark 10:5-6

The Holy Spirit speaks through John on JESUS THE CREATOR.....

Did The Holy Spirit lie?

Man says The Holy Spirit lied.

It was evolution not Jesus who made all things.

Oh Christian!

Who Do You Believe!

Who Do You Think I Believe!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:1-3

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

John 1:14

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:14

Dear Rowdy Wonderful Worthy Family

Believers in The Bible's account of creation, the fall of man, the evil of sin and the resulting curse of death, the redemption of mankind at Calvary, the Restoration of Israel and the physical return of The Lord Jesus Christ to Jerusalem and The Great White throne Judgment, the destruction of old earth and the old heavens and the creation of the new heavens and the new earth and the descending The New Jerusalem from The Heavens and the dwelling of God in it as the sole source of light and life.....or not!

Your salvation is based on "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified" only.

Do not let the lies of anti-science evil evolution's Anti-Christ and Anti-Bible attacks divert you from Jesus and from Calvary.

You will not loose your salvation because you are snowed by evolutionary lies about Jesus not being The Creator.

Oh yeah! Its OK to shoot a little derisiveness at Old Joe that silly Bible Believing guy!

I literally believe God when He says you and I will worship Him before a literal Throne

And a literal Heavenly Father

and a literal LORD Jesus Christ

For a literal eternity.

You are loved!

We will be way too busy shouting Hallelujah!

Praise The LORD!

Glory To The KING

To say I told you so!

So I'll say it now!

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

Numbers 6:24-26

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest]

Soooo, you believe that if someone believes in theistic evolution, yet claim to be saved, are not actually saved? Do you believe that someone's salvation depends on their interpretation of Genesis 1 and/or 2?

I literally believe The Bible.....

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3;16

I literally believe you are my Dear Eternal Blood Brother by The Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ.....

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:7

I literally Rejoice to see Systemstrike_7 Alive, well and posting at Worthy!

Your growing walk with Christ and your love for Jesus gives me great Joy!

Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

Oh yeah!

You said check.

I checked!

Did me a lot of good Huh!

Post Early - Post Often - Pray Without Ceasing!

Bless You Brother!

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

Numbers 6:24-26

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest]

Another splinter group will form eventually. new type of Christians will up hold the new science laws while the old time Christians will fight for their survival. Both will call each other short to the kingdom of God.

Nice try slick!

Not to Worry!

One Spirit

Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 1:27

One LORD

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Ephesians 4:5

One God

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Corinthians 8:6

Hear Oh Israel

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Mark 12:29

I am blessed to see you still at Worthy, Just-A-Guy.

The Gift

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

Numbers 6:24-26

Love, Joe

[apothanein kerdos]

And I would say that anyone who believes that people who give merit to evolution aren't saved needs to check their arrogance at the door...

check!

Soooo, you believe that if someone believes in theistic evolution, yet claim to be saved, are not actually saved? Do you believe that someone's salvation depends on their interpretation of Genesis 1 and/or 2?

I think pure theistic evolution ends up becoming indefensible for the Orthodox believer. Theistic evolution is going to say that God established the basis for everything and then let it go from there. In other words, His hand was not involved in the process. Under this view, Christians then have to explain evil, the fall of man, how to deal without a literal Adam and Eve, etc. Theologically, it becomes completely indefensible. That isn't to say they aren't saved, just that they'll have a very hard time explaining the Christian faith.

There is a way to believe in some aspects of evolution without giving up our theology. An Old Earth believer will still believe in an Earth that is billions of years, one that developed through entropy, etc. However, they will still teach special creation, God's interaction along the way (such as the Cambrian Explosion), a literal Adam and Eve (40,000-50,000 years ago)...and some will even teach that species evolved into other species. The differnce between Old Earth and a theistic evolutionist is that an OE believer is still able to maintain a theological stance on the issue and doesn't make God look like a Deistic god, one who started creation and then just left it to its own devices.

[systemstrike_7]

And I would say that anyone who believes that people who give merit to evolution aren't saved needs to check their arrogance at the door...

check!

Soooo, you believe that if someone believes in theistic evolution, yet claim to be saved, are not actually saved? Do you believe that someone's salvation depends on their interpretation of Genesis 1 and/or 2?

I think pure theistic evolution ends up becoming indefensible for the Orthodox believer. Theistic evolution is going to say that God established the basis for everything and then let it go from there. In other words, His hand was not involved in the process. Under this view, Christians then have to explain evil, the fall of man, how to deal without a literal Adam and Eve, etc. Theologically, it becomes completely indefensible. That isn't to say they aren't saved, just that they'll have a very hard time explaining the Christian faith.

There is a way to believe in some aspects of evolution without giving up our theology. An Old Earth believer will still believe in an Earth that is billions of years, one that developed through entropy, etc. However, they will still teach special creation, God's interaction along the way (such as the Cambrian Explosion), a literal Adam and Eve (40,000-50,000 years ago)...and some will even teach that species evolved into other species. The differnce between Old Earth and a theistic evolutionist is that an OE believer is still able to maintain a theological stance on the issue and doesn't make God look like a Deistic god, one who started creation and then just left it to its own devices.

Ok, I see what you are saying... Sorry, my vocabulary on such matters isn't exactly "tiptop". I believe that evolution happened, that the earth is billions of years old, and that we have God to thank for all of this.

But FresnoJoe, in no way do I take my eyes off of our Lord Jesus Christ. I completely believe that He created all things, and was with the Father in the beginning. He certainly proved that in His Ressurection.

Thanks,

system