Pentecostals please!

[Guest LadyC]

I've heard the other viewpoint preached but I'm one who checks up what the pastor says and accepts it if I study the bible and see it lines up with it.

you're very wise.... and FAR from being a pastor's worst nightmare. any pastor worth his weight in dirt would encourage you to continue ALWAYS to be berean, which is the biblical term for one who studies the word of God to ensure the pastor is not misleading them (intentionally or otherwise.)

[Guest]

[eric]

Yup and I give my brother Joe' another

[nebula]

There are two passages of Scripture that stick out to me with this regard:

Matthew 18:15-17

15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Of course Jesus did not say the brother has fallen from grace, but He did tell us to treat him as one who is in need of repentance and salvation.

Rev. 3:5 - He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

It appears here that a name written in the Book of Life can be blotted out. If that does not mean "losing salvation", I do not know what else it could mean.

[methinkshe]

Hello Natt. Unless you committed the unpardonable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, you can always come back to God. All you have to do is confess your sins and he is faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. I am Pentecostal, reject OSAS, but don't believe you are beyond hope simply because you mess up from time to time.

Lest anyone should come under condemnation and fear that they have committed the unpardonable sin, may I just offer the following?

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world - sins of the past, present and future. There is no sin that Jesus did not cover with His atoning death and resurrection. To suggest otherwise would be to imply that God was somehow taken by surprise by a particular sin that you or I committed and hadn't factored that into His plan of salvation. That would be to deny God's omniscience. So if Jesus has died for ALL sin, for ALL time, what then is this unforgiveable sin - this blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? If we remember that the work of the Holy Spirit is to convict men of their sinfulness and to witness to Jesus' person and works, then it becomes clear that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to deny the Spirit's witness to the truth, thus calling the Holy Spirit a liar. Therefore, not believing that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world is the only unforgiveable sin. What more is available if one refuses to believe the witness of the Holy Spirit to Jesus' once-and-for all, complete and sufficent sacrifice for sin?

Gloriously free in Jesus

Ruth

Edited May 18, 2007 by methinkshe

[wordsower]

I think the parable of the prodigal son explains the issue of OSAS clearly.

The son was "saved" got the "gifts" of salvation from his father, left, wasted them, wandered around in sin and rejection and then came to himself and returned. The father was waiting on the porch for him, looking for him, he knew he was coming back.

God does not live in time, He just IS, that is why I believe in OSAS, simply that God knows what your decision is before you do and either you are saved or not in His eyes. Like Jesus said Judas was a son of perdition before the foundation of the world. To the other disciples I'm sure he looked saved but God already saw him as lost.

Hope that makes sense.

[exrockstar]

I think the parable of the prodigal son explains the issue of OSAS clearly.

The son was "saved" got the "gifts" of salvation from his father, left, wasted them, wandered around in sin and rejection and then came to himself and returned. The father was waiting on the porch for him, looking for him, he knew he was coming back.

God does not live in time, He just IS, that is why I believe in OSAS, simply that God knows what your decision is before you do and either you are saved or not in His eyes. Like Jesus said Judas was a son of perdition before the foundation of the world. To the other disciples I'm sure he looked saved but God already saw him as lost.

Hope that makes sense.

i agree, whats wrong with once saved always saved?

if God saves a person it is a gift from Him to a person. I've always found it weird how people believe that they can lose it.

if a person can control the status of their salvation then that just concludes that the person has a say-so.

A person has no-say-so. If they did then God wouldnt be in control. Which means it would be a weak God.

Oh well, religion will do its thing. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[methinkshe]

I think the parable of the prodigal son explains the issue of OSAS clearly.

The son was "saved" got the "gifts" of salvation from his father, left, wasted them, wandered around in sin and rejection and then came to himself and returned. The father was waiting on the porch for him, looking for him, he knew he was coming back.

God does not live in time, He just IS, that is why I believe in OSAS, simply that God knows what your decision is before you do and either you are saved or not in His eyes. Like Jesus said Judas was a son of perdition before the foundation of the world. To the other disciples I'm sure he looked saved but God already saw him as lost.

Hope that makes sense.

i agree, whats wrong with once saved always saved?

if God saves a person it is a gift from Him to a person. I've always found it weird how people believe that they can lose it.

if a person can control the status of their salvation then that just concludes that the person has a say-so.

A person has no-say-so. If they did then God wouldnt be in control God. Which means it would be a weak God.

Oh well, religion will do its thing. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

I agree, too. "Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world" and those whom God has chosen he also calls. And "none shall pluck them out of my hand."

Saved today and lost tomorrow seems to me a very weak foundation for eternal security in Jesus, and an unsatisfactory exegesis of Scripture.

Ruth

[exrockstar]

I agree, too. "Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world" and those whom God has chosen he also calls. And "none shall pluck them out of my hand."

Saved today and lost tomorrow seems to me a very weak foundation for eternal security in Jesus, and an unsatisfactory exegesis of Scripture.

Ruth

story of the prodigal son has a point.

the son left and returned. it had nothing to do with stepping in and out of salvation.

they were both His children (sons). God will let you step out into the world and get kicked around but when you return guess what? you are still His son.

The dad never said "forget him. i'm unclaiming him. I'm disowning him."

Actually, it was the brother that got upset and jealous.

Hence the tie-in with "we are a new creation as children of God."

que sera sera.

we just hijacked this thread. lol ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[methinkshe]

I think the parable of the prodigal son explains the issue of OSAS clearly.

The son was "saved" got the "gifts" of salvation from his father, left, wasted them, wandered around in sin and rejection and then came to himself and returned. The father was waiting on the porch for him, looking for him, he knew he was coming back.

God does not live in time, He just IS, that is why I believe in OSAS, simply that God knows what your decision is before you do and either you are saved or not in His eyes. Like Jesus said Judas was a son of perdition before the foundation of the world. To the other disciples I'm sure he looked saved but God already saw him as lost.

Hope that makes sense.

i agree, whats wrong with once saved always saved?

if God saves a person it is a gift from Him to a person. I've always found it weird how people believe that they can lose it.

if a person can control the status of their salvation then that just concludes that the person has a say-so.

A person has no-say-so. If they did then God wouldnt be in control. Which means it would be a weak God.

Oh well, religion will do its thing. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

If you are saying that a person has no say so, then do you also believe we have no free will?

It is difficult as a human being to comprehend eternity and the action of God who dwells outside time and can see the beginning from the end. We know from Scripture that God has known His elect from before the foundation of the world. Does that negate free will? By no means. It just says that God knows the end from the beginning. The nearest I have come to understanding the predestination/freewill paradox (apparent paradox, that is) is how John Bunyan put it in Pilgrim's Progress - and I will have to paraphrase at this point because I do not have a copy to hand.

There is a door representing salvation which is available to every man to pass, and on it is written, "Whosoever will, may come". Those who choose to open the door and go in, find that on the reverse of the door is written: "Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world."

In Jesus,

Ruth