Head "OF" or head "OVER" .....

[Emily~Anne]

You are absolutely wrong Oops, we will never be able to understand God's ways truly. Because we are not God, we are human beings. I trust God, period, and his word is very clear that I am to submit to my husband.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways,"

declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts.

[Emily~Anne]

Genesis 2:18 (King James Version)

18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Genesis 2:23 (King James Version)

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Timothy 2:9-14 (King James Version)

9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 11:3 (King James Version)

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Ephesians 5:22-33 (King James Version)

22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Colossians 3:18-21 (New International Version)

Rules for Christian Households

18Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

19Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

20Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.

21Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

Titus 2:3-5 (King James Version)

3The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

1 Peter 3:1-7 (King James Version)

1Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

2While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

6Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

7Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

This scripture is not the least bit confusing at all. I understand very clearly what God's word here says. I dont understand all the reasonings of it, but I dont need to, I just need to know that this here is God's design for husbands and wives. It is pretty simple.

[MorningGlory]

Get off the bandwagon...I swear, if the Anti-Christ badmouthed me, some of you would line up along side him.

[OopsMartin]

Giles fr "The Trinity & Subordinationism"

.......The creation-order argument is pivotal to the hierarchical-complementarian case because it allows the apostolic exhortations for wives to be subordinate to their husbands and the two commands for women to keep silent in church to be read as transcultural, permanently binding rulings. Egalitarian-complementarians are not unaware of these exhortations and prohibitions; they simply do not accept that they are based on an unchanging constituitive and prescriptive social order given in creation." If it could be shown that this appeal to a transcultural, unchanging constituitive and prescriptive social order given in creation is a human construct, read back into the text of Scripture, the whole contemporary case for the permanent subordination of women would collapse. It would be seen to be an edifice without a foundation."

What Giles is pointing out here is the creation order argument is based on assumptions and "inferrings" rather than actual commands (prescriptive) from God to humans. Fact is that the only actual clear laws or commands in the creation accounts are the two things that God told the first humans to do. (later came the prohibition)

26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[a] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

We see that God established two commands about humanity and the only authority God mentions is to command BOTH the man and the woman to be responsible for the earth's creatures ; and to command BOTH the man and the woman to take responsibility to fill the earth with their own kind.

ALL other assumptions about who came first, who came from whom are assumptions about real facts but facts that God did not speak into in the ways the hierarchical-complementarians claim. In other words assuming that God created the man first because He was giving the male authority over the woman does not make it so, because God never said that. God was silent as to why He did it that way. Thus truly it is wrong, dead wrong, to build a doctrine on what God never said.

But God did say some things. And we can look at what God did say to the male when God was taking His time in creating the woman. More later.

A humorous aside here.... it always gives me a smile when hierarchical young women are nasty and bossy to men (and women) twice their age, and then claim they believe in female subordination to men. I'm not saying anyone here did that. But I've seen it done so much on forums in ALL subjects. I wonder how they justify it in their minds. Even not regarding being hierarchically, minded Scripture does say to speak to an older man as a father. Is this the way children today speak to their fathers? My daughter is 41 and she would never speak to me that way even when she doesn't like what I say.

[firehill]

You are absolutely wrong Oops, we will never be able to understand God's ways truly. Because we are not God, we are human beings. I trust God, period, and his word is very clear that I am to submit to my husband.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways,"

declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible. especialy if we are like the Bereans.

[Emily~Anne]

You are absolutely wrong Oops, we will never be able to understand God's ways truly. Because we are not God, we are human beings. I trust God, period, and his word is very clear that I am to submit to my husband.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways,"

declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible.

Yep, and his word should be taken as is, and not twisted. Oops edited his post as it originally said we need to fully understand God's ways. I should have quoted him.

[Scarletprayers]

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible. especialy if we are like the Bereans.

firehill, I wish that were true, but all the different opinions that you and I see here, show that it isn't!

[Emily~Anne]

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible. especialy if we are like the Bereans.

firehill, I wish that were true, but all the different opinions that you and I see here, show that it isn't!

Amen, and that is why we need to rely on God's word and take it as what it says, and not rely on human reasoning so excessively.

[firehill]

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible. especialy if we are like the Bereans.

firehill, I wish that were true, but all the different opinions that you and I see here, show that it isn't!

All the different opinions we see here do not 'show' or 'prove' that we CANNOT whatsoever in any absolute sense understand what God has had PUT IN WRITING. We still CAN (a word that marks possibility). Why would it not be absolutely possible?

[firehill]

You are absolutely wrong Oops, we will never be able to understand God's ways truly. Because we are not God, we are human beings. I trust God, period, and his word is very clear that I am to submit to my husband.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways,"

declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible.

Yep, and his word should be taken as is, and not twisted. Oops edited his post as it originally said we need to fully understand God's ways. I should have quoted him.

Many times I choose the wrong word to use. So what? Whenever we do so we should go back and correct what we intended to mean. Do you always write your posts 100% perfect? If you do I wanna be non human too. How many times did you edit post #163?