Head "OF" or head "OVER" .....

[OopsMartin]

Yep, and his word should be taken as is, and not twisted. Oops edited his post as it originally said we need to fully understand God's ways. I should have quoted him.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I didn't edit that part Emily. Sometimes, we read things incorrectly.

NO ONE can FULLY understand God's Word. That should be evident on these forums. Any little bit that we do "get" we should be thankful for. God is too big for our finite minds to comprehend. There are people who have preached and taught Scripture their entire lives and yet in their last years are still discovering new insights about what things mean.

This is why it's really a good idea to actually listen to one another and consider each other's thoughts on things. If we assume we know it all and therefore don't need to listen to anyone else, we are going to miss something that could have helped us be closer to God.

[OopsMartin]

You are absolutely wrong Oops, we will never be able to understand God's ways truly. Because we are not God, we are human beings. I trust God, period, and his word is very clear that I am to submit to my husband.

Just for clarity Emily, I believe you should submit to your husband also. The question is what does that mean. Which we will undoubtedly get into later.

I think likely I will address the assumptions about the woman as "help meet" next.

Thanks for the contributions.......

[ColleenLovesMischief]

God created women so man wouldn't be alone anymore...and to multiply creation.....not too hard. Husbands are our authority. Our head. And God is theirs

[Emily~Anne]

You are absolutely wrong Oops, we will never be able to understand God's ways truly. Because we are not God, we are human beings. I trust God, period, and his word is very clear that I am to submit to my husband.

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways,"

declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible.

Yep, and his word should be taken as is, and not twisted. Oops edited his post as it originally said we need to fully understand God's ways. I should have quoted him.

Many times I choose the wrong word to use. So what? Whenever we do so we should go back and correct what we intended to mean. Do you always write your posts 100% perfect? If you do I wanna be non human too. How many times did you edit post #163?

To say we need to fully understand God's ways instead of 'only need some understanding', is totally changing what you say. That is not a matter of choosing the wrong word. I edited post #163, why does that matter to you? This one matters to me cause I replied to it. Post #163 is 99% scripture anyway, God's word never changes!

[Emily~Anne]

God created women so man wouldn't be alone anymore...and to multiply creation.....not too hard. Husbands are our authority. Our head. And God is theirs

Bingo, and it aint rocket science.

[Scarletprayers]

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible. especialy if we are like the Bereans.

firehill, I wish that were true, but all the different opinions that you and I see here, show that it isn't!

All the different opinions we see here do not 'show' or 'prove' that we CANNOT whatsoever in any absolute sense understand what God has had PUT IN WRITING. We still CAN (a word that marks possibility). Why would it not be absolutely possible?

firehill, your smarter than that, do you really believe that people who disagree with you are just doing it for the fun of it? Honest, loving true Christians have disagreed from the start. Do I think your not a true believer when I disagree with you? No I don't think that at all, I honestly believe everybody is trying to explain what and why they believe with what they say, and I think until Jesus comes these same discussions by the faithful will still be going on.

[firehill]

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible. especialy if we are like the Bereans.

firehill, I wish that were true, but all the different opinions that you and I see here, show that it isn't!

All the different opinions we see here do not 'show' or 'prove' that we CANNOT whatsoever in any absolute sense understand what God has had PUT IN WRITING. We still CAN (a word that marks possibility). Why would it not be absolutely possible?

firehill, your smarter than that, do you really believe that people who disagree with you are just doing it for the fun of it?

Why would a smart person assume that? My point was this: You can understand what this statement says because IT IS in writing.

Ofcourse I'm not saying that we can understand fully God's word in it's entirety.

[OopsMartin]

Emily Anne we will never be able to understand God's ways fully for our ways are not His ways he declared...BUT I do think and believe that we can understand what He has had PUT IN WRITING for us, the scriptures of the bible. especialy if we are like the Bereans.

firehill, I wish that were true, but all the different opinions that you and I see here, show that it isn't!

All the different opinions we see here do not 'show' or 'prove' that we CANNOT whatsoever in any absolute sense understand what God has had PUT IN WRITING. We still CAN (a word that marks possibility). Why would it not be absolutely possible?

firehill, your smarter than that, do you really believe that people who disagree with you are just doing it for the fun of it? Honest, loving true Christians have disagreed from the start. Do I think your not a true believer when I disagree with you? No I don't think that at all, I honestly believe everybody is trying to explain what and why they believe with what they say, and I think until Jesus comes these same discussions by the faithful will still be going on.

Hey come-on. You are both right. Of course we can get some understanding of what is written. Do we think God would inspire His written word if He didn't think we could ever understand any of it? But no one person is capable of understanding all of it.

And good word Silent. It is not easy to grasp that a fellow believer could disagree so much on some topics. But we are human and finite. We all come with different experiences, and have learned different lessons in life. We see from different perspectives. Sometimes it's amazing we do agree on so much. And really we agree on far far more than we disagree on. We just make a big deal of what we disagree on.

[Neopatriarch]

Giles fr "The Trinity & Subordinationism"

.......The creation-order argument is pivotal to the hierarchical-complementarian case because it allows the apostolic exhortations for wives to be subordinate to their husbands and the two commands for women to keep silent in church to be read as transcultural, permanently binding rulings. Egalitarian-complementarians are not unaware of these exhortations and prohibitions; they simply do not accept that they are based on an unchanging constituitive and prescriptive social order given in creation." If it could be shown that this appeal to a transcultural, unchanging constituitive and prescriptive social order given in creation is a human construct, read back into the text of Scripture, the whole contemporary case for the permanent subordination of women would collapse. It would be seen to be an edifice without a foundation."

What Giles is pointing out here is the creation order argument . . . (clip!)

This is a diversion from the topic. The title of this thread is "Head 'OF' or head 'OVER'", and I thought we were supposed to be discussing the meaning of kephale, specifically as it relates to the comp-egal debate.

-Neopatriarch

[OopsMartin]

Through the years there have been some incredible reasons why men are supposed to be in authority over the woman. I'm going to share a smidgen (that's a couple grains of salt if I remember my mother correctly) as an intro into discussing woman as "help-meet".

The following quotes are in the book "10 Lies the Church Tells Women, by J. Lee Brady

"The female is more imperfect than the male. The first reason is that she is colder. If, among animals the warmer ones are more active, it follows that the colder ones are imperfect." (