Jump to content

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  331
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  8,713
  • Content Per Day:  1.14
  • Reputation:   21
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  07/28/2004
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
The ONLY people who complain about churches being too big and successful are those dead and dying churches that have no direction

Again, prove to me that numbers equate success.

What you said - no offense intended - is idiotic. You're saying that people that complain about people pursuing numbers only do so because they have "failed." For one, many of the people that complain about those who seek numbers as success have pastored major churches or attended them (Emir Caner, Paige Patterson, John Macarthur, Al Mohler, and many others).

No one is against bigger churches - what is being argued against is the pursuit of a bigger church and using any method available in order to achieve that number. There is nothing wrong in having a smaller church or a church that isn't growing in numbers. You cannot provide a single biblical reference that would show how this would be bad.

As I demonstrated, Jesus lost followers. By your own definition, He was a failure. You have yet to deal with this. You're working from a false premise, and honestly, I won't continue this discussion with you because you're rude and refuse to address the points. If you can change that, let's carry on the discussion. If not, don't bother responding.

Our Lord would have been a failure if the story of His ministry was "most of his followers abandoned Him when His teachings got tough." As you know, that is NOT the entire story, nor the central theme of His story.

The problem is, I gave scripture that states EXACTLY that - when His teaching became difficult, people abandoned Him.

  • Replies 36
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  811
  • Topics Per Day:  0.11
  • Content Count:  7,338
  • Content Per Day:  1.02
  • Reputation:   76
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  10/06/2005
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

Oh Lord! I am most certainly NOT against big churches! Our church is growing, in fact. We started out with 35 and have passed 80. But our growth has been promulgated on the preaching of the Word. We don't have circuses, dance troupes or magic shows. :thumbsup:

I can't add to what AK said regarding Young, but your notion that the church was founded upon Peter is not necessarily the only interpretation. I believe, as do many others, that it was Peter's confession Jesus was referencing. As far as we know, this was the very first time that Jesus was declared to be the "Christ."


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  138
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  3,997
  • Content Per Day:  0.60
  • Reputation:   19
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/13/2007
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

Shame on you.

Shalom,

HEY! That's MY line! :24:

Yikes! I'll give you credit immediately! :huh:

Shalom Marnie,

:24: Thanks!! (must be the Jewish upbringing!)

So, instead of addressing the issues in a gracious way, you'd rather denigrate the author? Hmmmm.

As for being deceived, the article you posted is pretty much there in my opinion. And if posting an article means that you "follow man's teachings at the expense of the Bible", what does that say about the fact that YOU posted an article? Are you "following that man's teachings at the expense of the Bible?" Works both ways, doesn't it? :b:

See, he published his ideas, and therefore opened himself up for criticism. The idea that Ed Young has degenerated into heresy is most certainly NOT mine alone! His heresies ARE the issue!


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  138
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  3,997
  • Content Per Day:  0.60
  • Reputation:   19
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  02/13/2007
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
We don't have circuses, dance troupes or magic shows. :huh:

Shalom Marnie,

That doesn't make them wrong. :24:


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  24
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  3,292
  • Content Per Day:  0.49
  • Reputation:   11
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/21/2007
  • Status:  Offline

Posted
Again, prove to me that numbers equate success.

Why would I try to prove that? I haven't made that point in the slightest. I've belonged to small churches all my life. My father has started churches all over the world and they ALWAYS start small. Some grow big, others stay small, some don't make it. I would NEVER be so shallow as to act as though a small church couldn't be successful. However, I wouldn't be so shallow as to assume that just cuz a church was big that it wasn't a Godly church...which is exactly what Ray Baumann said.

What you said - no offense intended - is idiotic. You're saying that people that complain about people pursuing numbers only do so because they have "failed." For one, many of the people that complain about those who seek numbers as success have pastored major churches or attended them (Emir Caner, Paige Patterson, John Macarthur, Al Mohler, and many others).

To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) but NONE of those men has ever bashed a large church for having a projector, or reaching out to the community, or having relevant messages to solve problems. Seriously, I can't believe you guys can just gloss over such idiotic "ingredients" that he refers to as "ugly." My point is that NOBODY in a thriiving church, regardless of size, wishes that it was smaller.

No one is against bigger churches - what is being argued against is the pursuit of a bigger church and using any method available in order to achieve that number. There is nothing wrong in having a smaller church or a church that isn't growing in numbers. You cannot provide a single biblical reference that would show how this would be bad.

Okay...now we are getting somewhere. At least we are agreeing that big churches aren't evil. Now, pardon me again if I'm wrong, but the guy writing the piece didn't just say "any method available." The guy made the insinuation that if your church doesn't have pews, an organ/piano combo, and three old ladies in the front row wearing a flower in their hat...then your church is misguided. Just in case you missed them lets review the "ugly ingredients"...

1. Man-centered theology... never saw a Christian church that taught this

2. Relevant messages that solve people

Guest lovinghim4ever
Posted

It doesn't matter to God how big or how small a congregation is.

All that really matters to Him is the condition and motive of our heart.

"The Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance,

but the Lord looks at the heart" (1 Samuel 16:7).

;):noidea::24:

:24::o:24:


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  366
  • Topics Per Day:  0.05
  • Content Count:  10,933
  • Content Per Day:  1.49
  • Reputation:   212
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  04/21/2005
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

We are getting reports on this thread. As I read through it, one thing seems very evident. Folks have a need to attack those with whom they disagree. Even if someone is mistaken in one area of doctrine, it does not automatically make everthing they say untrue. I wish people could stick to the issues, rather than people, but I guess they just can't.

Closed

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • You are coming up higher in this season – above the assignments of character assassination and verbal arrows sent to manage you, contain you, and derail your purpose. Where you have had your dreams and sleep robbed, as well as your peace and clarity robbed – leaving you feeling foggy, confused, and heavy – God is, right now, bringing freedom back -- now you will clearly see the smoke and mirrors that were set to distract you and you will disengage.

      Right now God is declaring a "no access zone" around you, and your enemies will no longer have any entry point into your life. Oil is being poured over you to restore the years that the locust ate and give you back your passion. This is where you will feel a fresh roar begin to erupt from your inner being, and a call to leave the trenches behind and begin your odyssey in your Christ calling moving you to bear fruit that remains as you minister to and disciple others into their Christ identity.

      This is where you leave the trenches and scale the mountain to fight from a different place, from victory, from peace, and from rest. Now watch as God leads you up higher above all the noise, above all the chaos, and shows you where you have been seated all along with Him in heavenly places where you are UNTOUCHABLE. This is where you leave the soul fight, and the mind battle, and learn to fight differently.

      You will know how to live like an eagle and lead others to the same place of safety and protection that God led you to, which broke you out of the silent prison you were in. Put your war boots on and get ready to fight back! Refuse to lay down -- get out of bed and rebuke what is coming at you. Remember where you are seated and live from that place.

      Acts 1:8 - “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses … to the end of the earth.”

       

      ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY
        • Thanks
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 3 replies
    • George Whitten, the visionary behind Worthy Ministries and Worthy News, explores the timing of the Simchat Torah War in Israel. Is this a water-breaking moment? Does the timing of the conflict on October 7 with Hamas signify something more significant on the horizon?

       



      This was a message delivered at Eitz Chaim Congregation in Dallas Texas on February 3, 2024.

      To sign up for our Worthy Brief -- https://worthybrief.com

      Be sure to keep up to date with world events from a Christian perspective by visiting Worthy News -- https://www.worthynews.com

      Visit our live blogging channel on Telegram -- https://t.me/worthywatch
      • 0 replies
    • Understanding the Enemy!

      I thought I write about the flip side of a topic, and how to recognize the attempts of the enemy to destroy lives and how you can walk in His victory!

      For the Apostle Paul taught us not to be ignorant of enemy's tactics and strategies.

      2 Corinthians 2:112  Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. 

      So often, we can learn lessons by learning and playing "devil's" advocate.  When we read this passage,

      Mar 3:26  And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 
      Mar 3:27  No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strongman; and then he will spoil his house. 

      Here we learn a lesson that in order to plunder one's house you must first BIND up the strongman.  While we realize in this particular passage this is referring to God binding up the strongman (Satan) and this is how Satan's house is plundered.  But if you carefully analyze the enemy -- you realize that he uses the same tactics on us!  Your house cannot be plundered -- unless you are first bound.   And then Satan can plunder your house!

      ... read more
        • Thumbs Up
      • 230 replies
    • Daniel: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 3

      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this study, I'll be focusing on Daniel and his picture of the resurrection and its connection with Yeshua (Jesus). 

      ... read more
      • 13 replies
    • Abraham and Issac: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 2
      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this series the next obvious sign of the resurrection in the Old Testament is the sign of Isaac and Abraham.

      Gen 22:1  After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
      Gen 22:2  He said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

      So God "tests" Abraham and as a perfect picture of the coming sacrifice of God's only begotten Son (Yeshua - Jesus) God instructs Issac to go and sacrifice his son, Issac.  Where does he say to offer him?  On Moriah -- the exact location of the Temple Mount.

      ...read more
      • 20 replies

×
×
  • Create New...