Solid evidence for a young Earth

[undone]

there is no arguement we atheists can give you that will make you disbeleive in a God, all we could possibly hope to do, is to make you question your beleifs

AHAAA!!! The truth comes out!!! You mean you guys aren't here because you are truly seeking for answers that have been bugging you lately about spiritual matters?

You mean you want US to lose faith because you guys are the keepers of the REAL truth and you're here to save us from this insanity?

I'm shocked! I don't know what to think! You've actually had nefarious intentions all this time and I thought you were here for our help!!!

[undone]

AHAAA!!! The truth comes out!!! You mean you guys aren't here because you are truly seeking for answers that have been bugging you lately about spiritual matters?

Speaking for myself, I'm not here seeking for answers that have been bugging me about spiritual matters.

You mean you want US to lose faith because you guys are the keepers of the REAL truth and you're here to save us from this insanity?

I do not see myself as lost, and I am generally repelled by efforts to be "found." I am not here seeking God. I am here in search of ways for people who see the world differently to come together, and in particular, it is my goal to help demonstrate that atheists are not to be universally feared. I am also here to learn firsthand the arguments that are used to win over new followers, so that I can improve my understanding of the world, and of the believers who occupy it. I am also here to challenge your beliefs and the beliefs of those who are still undecided on matters of God.

Sorry spblat,

I just found this funny. I've seen your post above in the other thread. I must confess I enjoyed this way too much. I had a pretty bad experience on another Christian board that was primarily designed for teens. The board was open for anyone to post on and it quickly got covered up with non-believers intentionally trying to pull youngsters away from their faith. It got so bad that the people who ran it decided to shut it down. What was meant to be a place for like minded teens to congregate and share their lives/problems/questions with each other, became a nightmare. I was one of the few Christian adults (because I teach youth and support that particular ministry) who supported and participated on that board.

I have no misconceptions about why most atheist/agnostics participate on Christian message boards. That said, I also shouldn't paint all of you with the same brush. For that I apologize.

[Gerioke]

there is no arguement we atheists can give you that will make you disbeleive in a God, all we could possibly hope to do, is to make you question your beleifs

AHAAA!!! The truth comes out!!! You mean you guys aren't here because you are truly seeking for answers that have been bugging you lately about spiritual matters?

You mean you want US to lose faith because you guys are the keepers of the REAL truth and you're here to save us from this insanity?

I'm shocked! I don't know what to think! You've actually had nefarious intentions all this time and I thought you were here for our help!!!

The hardest steel is forged in the hottest fires, arguements against evolution drive me to learn more and more about the subject, making me more intelligent Don't you mean knowledgeable?

and if you are not willing to have your beleifs questioned, how strong can your beleifs be?

You appear to be a legend in your own mind.

[Gerioke]

there is no arguement we atheists can give you that will make you disbeleive in a God, all we could possibly hope to do, is to make you question your beleifs

AHAAA!!! The truth comes out!!! You mean you guys aren't here because you are truly seeking for answers that have been bugging you lately about spiritual matters?

You mean you want US to lose faith because you guys are the keepers of the REAL truth and you're here to save us from this insanity?

I'm shocked! I don't know what to think! You've actually had nefarious intentions all this time and I thought you were here for our help!!!

The hardest steel is forged in the hottest fires, arguements against evolution drive me to learn more and more about the subject, making me more intelligent Don't you mean knowledgeable?

and if you are not willing to have your beleifs questioned, how strong can your beleifs be?

You appear to be a legend in your own mind.

knowledge is memorizing facts, intelligence is discovering them yourself, and common sense is putting it to use. I say intelligence because as i am forced to question my beleifs i am forced to delve deeper into the knowldge i have, perhaps discover some new, and either way discover for myself, using the knowledge i have how the entire universe fits together

how do i make you think i view myself as a living legend? just because i regard myself as an intelligent person?

Yes

[None]

I am here in search of ways for people who see the world differently to come together, and in particular, it is my goal to help demonstrate that atheists are not to be universally feared.

Maybe if you keep saying that atheists are feared over and over again, some poor gullible soul will eventually believe you. If they are a child of God, though, that will never happen, God points things like this out to His children -so- it's really just wishful thinking on satan's part.

Two men are standing on either side of a covered pit.

One is holding a sign that says, "Be careful! This is a covered pit! Step around it, please."

The other is holding a sign that says, "That guy is crazy, there's no pit there. Move on through."

The man holding the true sign is not afraid of the one holding the false sign,

he worries for the people who might believe the lie.

[undone]

(spblat @ Jun 9 2007, 03:35 PM)

I do not see myself as lost, and I am generally repelled by efforts to be "found." I am not here seeking God. I am here in search of ways for people who see the world differently to come together, and in particular, it is my goal to help demonstrate that atheists are not to be universally feared.

Unfortunately, many Christians remain naive to the attack our faith is under from the emergence of militant neo-atheism (Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Chris Hitchens, et al). Our atheist friend states he is not seeking God but is

[None]

[undone]

You know I'm fond of quoting Sagan. Here's another one.

[Guest]

....... another perspective on intelligence and knowledge:

Data -> Information -> Knowledge -> Understanding -> Wisdom

Intelligence is (among other things) what is required to move from the left to the right of this series.

Wisdom -> Jesus -> New Birth -> Relationship -> Eternal Love

Faith is what is required to move from the left to the right in this series.

(Along with The Word and The Holy Spirit)

The Cross

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:17-18

The Disputer

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1 Corinthians 1:19-20

The Preacher

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1 Corinthians 1:21-22

The Crucified

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 1:23-24

The Called

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Corinthians 1:25-26

The Weak

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

1 Corinthians 1:27-28

The Glory

That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

1 Corinthians 1:29-30

The Glory

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:31

Be Blessed

Love, Joe

[HAZARD]

This is more of a question, but I have a feeling it will turn into a debate.

Anyway, is there any good evidence that the Earth is actually 6000-8000 years old? Doesn't all the scientific evidence (which we cannot ignore) point to an old Earth?

The only refutation I have heard is that carbon dating is faulty. But I just can't believe that all the scientists that use this process are ignorant enough to continue using something that doesn't work. It sounds too much like a conspiracy theory. It is like someone saying that NASA is merely a conspiracy organization trying to trick us into believing the Earth is round when it is actually flat.

So, can anyone give some good evidence for a young Earth?

______________________________

Sure. The Bible is very clear as to when God created the entire endless universe which includes the Earth. John 1:1 speaks of the beginning, in the eternal past, "was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made" (John 1:1-3). In John 1:14 we learn that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. We need to ask ourselves just when was the time God speaks about, this "In the beginning time?" Was it 6.000years ago, or millions of years ago, or did God just sit about throughout eternity past and do nothing untill about 6.000 years ago? That does not seem logical does it. The Word became flesh, "a man," about 2.000 years ago, but He was with God throughout eternity past as the Word, or "In the beginning," time-eternal past. The Bible not only teaches us that "In the beginning was the Word," etc., in John 1:1, but it also teaches us that, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth" (Gen. 1:1). Could these two "in the beginnings" be one and the same, seeing God says the universe is endless and the stars cannot be counted??? and that He and the Word are also eternal beings, with out beginning or end, the Alpha and the Omega???

The Bible says that the heavens cannot be measured and the host of heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37; 33:22-25). If this is true then the material universe is vast beyond conception, and as God has existed from all eternity it is also hard to concieve that He only decided a few millenniums ago to do something.

In answer to this question the Bible tells us that, "In the beginning [literally, by periods or ages] God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth," it does not say "Six thousand years ago God created the heavens and the earth," as is generally taught by man. Does anyone know just when the beginning was? If anyone does know, then they know more than God as revealed. If no one knows just when the beginning was then it stands to reason that we just do not know and therefore, we should not teach that the beginning was 6,000 years ago. As far as any man knows it could have been six billion years ago.

When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life in Earth, we can speak with definate authority that it was 6,000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam.

Some teachers use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6,000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages. In these Scriptures the Hebrew, asah, meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word bara, to creat. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days, and not the original creation "In the beginning." Asah never means to create.

Undoubtedly, God created and made the different parts of the material universe and each thing therein, using the same care as in the six days when He restored the planet Earth to a habitable state and made a new order of Earth creatures, after its destruction and ruin caused by the first war ever fought. This war was a cataclismic battle between God and Satan, when Lucifer invaded Heaven to cast God out. Satan was defeated and cast back down to the Earth, as is written in Isa. 14:12-14; Luke 10:18. This war was fought long before the days of Adam, for Lucifer was already a fallen creature when he came into Adams Eden. For an unknown period, there was an original social system on this Earth ruled by Lucifer as proved in (Isa. 14:12-14; 45:18; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17; 2 Pet. 3:5-7). Along with this origional social system there were land animals, birds, fish, and other creatures created, and they were destroyed in the flood of Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-7. It is to this period that all fossils and remains of animals belong, as well as geological formations of the Earth.

Between these original creation's of God, "In the beginning' and the creations of the six days, is revealed the rule of Lucifer on the earth for an unknown period, his rebellion against God, the Earth's first sinful career, the defeat of Lucifer by God, and the overthrow of his kingdom by the first recorded flood on the earth in Gen. 1:2. Lucifer was the first ruler on the earth and he already had his period of Earth rule and his fall by the time of Adam.

In the work of the six days, it is stated that God with His hands FORMED each of the living creatures and man out of the dust of the ground (Gen. 1:20-27; 2:7-25; Job 26:13; Rom. 9:20; 1 Tim. 2:13). It is not only clear that God created the heavens and the Earth and all things "In the beginning," or each in its own period, but it is also clear the God FORMED all things with His hands. God formed both light anddarkness (Isa. 24:7). He did not do this on the first day of Gen 1:3-5, for at that time He merely DIVIDED them. Therefore THEY MUST HAVE BEEN CREATED AND FORMED before the first day. It is also stated that God with His hands FORMED the Earth (Ps. 8:3, 6; 90:2; 95:5); the heavens (Ps. 8:3; 9:1; 102:25; Isa. 40:12; the planets (Ps.8:3; Isa. 40:26; 45:12; 48:13; Heb. 1:10) and all things (Prov. 26:10). From a study of all these Scriptures and those on the creation af all things, it is clear that by the Word of God the materials were brought into existence, and then by His hands God formed the materials into the various parts of the universe. That is, as God spoke, the materials came into existence and as fast as they materialized He used them to form all things with His hands. (Ps. 8:3; 2 Pet. 3:3-9; Prov. 26:10).

Judging from what was done by God in six days, it took God a long time to originnaly create or bring into existence the material and use it to form with His hands each sun, moon, star, planet, and each creature that inhabits the vast endless universe. God took one day to merly divide the light from the darkness on this little planet Earth. How much time He originally took to bring into existence all the light and darkness of the entire universe is not known, but evidently He took a longer time than one day. God took one day to divide the waters which covered the Earth and restore the firmament and took one day to restore the earth and set bounds to the seas, therefore He naturally took a much longer period to originally bring the materials into existence and form the waters, the firmament, and the earth with its many mountains and valleys. God took one day to complete solar regulation in connection with the restored Earth, but He evidently used a much longer period to originally bring into existence and formed with His own hands the vast heavens and all the suns, moons, stars, and planets that are without number. God took two days to form the fish, fowls, beasts,, man and woman. He naturally took a much longer period to originally creat and form each inhabitant of the vast heavens and the many animals and inhabitants who originally lived on the Earth during Lucifer's kingdom, long before the chaos of Gen 1:2 and the six days of Gen.1:3-2-25.

In other words, if God took six days to restore one little planet to a habitable state and form new inhabitants for the earth, He would naturally take a much longer time to originally create and form with His hands the vast universe with all of its innumerable suns and planets along with their inhabitants.

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

Its because this doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, that they reject it.

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this missunderstanding clearly in plain human language,

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

But the heavens and the Earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

"If the world that then was" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created "the heavens and the Earth which are now" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world that then was "PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.