A bill in Congress makes it a crime for pastors

[Burning_Ember]

Thank you, KatyAnn, so much. You read the bill yourself, and illustrated what it actually said, rather than give in to sensationalist misinformation.

You beat me to it, as well! Kudos to you!

[None]

Regardless of what that particular bill says, this country is headed in the direction of speech dictatorship.

[senerhu]

This topic was something I received in an e-mail and I thought it interesting to post. As you suggested katyAnn, the bill does speak towards violence, however after reading the bill I found this little nugget...

SEC. 4. SUPPORT FOR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS BY STATE, LOCAL, AND TRIBAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS.

(a) Assistance Other Than Financial Assistance-

(1) IN GENERAL- At the request of State, local, or Tribal law enforcement agency, the Attorney General may provide technical, forensic, prosecutorial, or any other form of assistance in the criminal investigation or prosecution of any crime that--

(A) constitutes a crime of violence;

(B) constitutes a felony under the State, local, or Tribal laws; and

(C ) is motivated by prejudice based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim, or is a violation of the State, local, or Tribal hate crime laws.

Notice part C. This essentially states that assistance will be given, from the federal government, to local law authorities if requested by local law agencies for violations of prejudice to those saying homosexulaity is wrong. What this means is that homosexulaity and specifically speaking against homosexuality constiutes prejudice!

As moral Christians, this is our worst nightmare unfolding before our eyes. I can see where very soon we may not be able to preach the foundation of how homosexulaity is immoral and an act despised by God. The laws of this land passed by immoral people generally represented by the liberal faction of our country are getting to the point where Christians may not preach what is in the Bible because it contradicts, with prejudice, what the immoral faction of our country is having written into our laws...

and thus the jist of the topic, preachers beware...

[None]

I found a nugget too:

Isaiah 8:11-17

Fear God

11 The LORD spoke to me with his strong hand upon me,

warning me not to follow the way of this people. He said:

12 "Do not call conspiracy

everything that these people call conspiracy;

do not fear what they fear,

and do not dread it.

13 The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy,

he is the one you are to fear,

he is the one you are to dread,

14 and he will be a sanctuary;

but for both houses of Israel he will be

a stone that causes men to stumble

and a rock that makes them fall.

And for the people of Jerusalem he will be

a trap and a snare.

15 Many of them will stumble;

they will fall and be broken,

they will be snared and captured."

16 Bind up the testimony

and seal up the law among my disciples.

17 I will wait for the LORD,

who is hiding his face from the house of Jacob.

I will put my trust in him.

(sorry, it's a little off topic)

[Burning_Ember]

This topic was something I received in an e-mail and I thought it interesting to post. As you suggested katyAnn, the bill does speak towards violence, however after reading the bill I found this little nugget...

Nuggets and gems abound! This thread must be the site of a new internet diamond/gold mine. Lets break this bill down step by step.

SEC. 4. SUPPORT FOR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS BY STATE, LOCAL, AND TRIBAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS.

(a) Assistance Other Than Financial Assistance-

(1) IN GENERAL- At the request of State, local, or Tribal law enforcement agency, the Attorney General may provide technical, forensic, prosecutorial, or any other form of assistance in the criminal investigation or prosecution of any crime that--

Ok, the attorney general can help prosecute or give evidence in a case... But this is Qualified by parts A and B! So that means that both (A), (B) and © have to be true before that is allowed!

(A) constitutes a crime of violence;

(B) constitutes a felony under the State, local, or Tribal laws; and

So according to (A) and (B), it MUST be a;

1. A violent crime, and;

2. A felony.

(C ) is motivated by prejudice based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim, or is a violation of the State, local, or Tribal hate crime laws.

© Basically makes it (it=a violent felony) the same as if, for example, a member of the KKK hanging an Afircan-American, or something. Again, due to B and C, these crimes HAVE to be violent felonies, or else this doesn't apply.

So basically, unless as part of a speech against homosexuality your Preacher beats or sacrifices someone because of their sexual orientation, they don't have anything about free speech to worry about.

This bill does not apply to speech, but to violent crimes. There is nothing in the bill about speech.

[senerhu]

I agree, that on the surface this bill seems innocent enough but I have to ask you, do you honestly trust anything authored by kennedy? I don't...

also when I read the bill it occured to me that 'bodily injury' was rather vague. Apparently it is rather vague to people who oppose this bill more vigorously than I do. Here is a quote...

"The crucial phrase 'bodily injury‛ in the Act is left undefined. (Under the terms of the Act, a person may not cause prohibited 'bodily injury‛ because of sexual orientation.) Based on other federal statutes and regulations also using this term, it can mean any discomfort no matter how fleeting, including mental anguish. This authorizes prosecution for even nonviolent behavior such as mere unwanted religious expression opposing homosexual behavior, that leaves the listener upset.

The Act would give 'special victim‛ status to only certain politically favored groups, inexplicably leaving other categories of victims ignored by the federal government."

I'm sorry, I am very leery when people write bills that can be construed (no matter how much they reassure they aren't jeopardizing your freedom of speech) opposition to homosexuality as a hate crime...

[EricH]

I have been hearing about this bill for going on 2 years now, and I can never find substantiation that it will result in what those who are sounding the horn are saying it will. I think when we issue warnings, we need to be careful that we are accurate in our accusations. Otherwise we become the boy who cried wolf, and no one will take us seriously

[None]

I have been hearing about this bill for going on 2 years now, and I can never find substantiation that it will result in what those who are sounding the horn are saying it will. I think when we issue warnings, we need to be careful that we are accurate in our accusations. Otherwise we become the boy who cried wolf, and no one will take us seriously

Or the office worker who burnt the popcorn.

[Burning_Ember]

I looked up Bodily Injury in the U.S. Code, (Title 18) and the only part that related at all to "any discomfort, no matter how fleeting" was "The impairment of a mental faculty." So in theory, if someone was harassed and bullied to the point were they could not nearly function normally at work/school, due to being in constant anxiety, or had to be hospitalized in the psych ward temporarily, then MAYBE I could see it happening. But I've seen much stuff like that go on with nothing being done about that in similar situations, so I don't think its aanything to worry about.

All definitions point to violence, and that is overwhelmingly the context of the bill. So again, unless a pastor beats/sacrifices someone due to their sexual orientation during the sermon, through attempts to cause bodily harm, then there is ZERO to worry about.

Also, this bill does not protect just "politically favoured groups." Thats nigh on level of a myth. It says Sexual Orientation, Gender, and race, as some examples. So if someone really hates Gays, Lesbians, Heterosexuals, Transgenders, Hermaphrodites, Women, Men, Blacks, Whites, Asians, Hispanics, as well as whatever country they were from, then it still covers it as a hate crime, even if it is percieved.

That this will make pastors "victims of hate speech crimes" is true only in the realm of myth. Keep on crying Wolf, Senerhu.

[senerhu]

I looked up Bodily Injury in the U.S. Code, (Title 18) and the only part that related at all to "any discomfort, no matter how fleeting" was "The impairment of a mental faculty." So in theory, if someone was harassed and bullied to the point were they could not nearly function normally at work/school, due to being in constant anxiety, or had to be hospitalized in the psych ward temporarily, then MAYBE I could see it happening. But I've seen much stuff like that go on with nothing being done about that in similar situations,so I don't think its aanything to worry about.

I'm sure you were very objective in your 'research'. It is comforting to know that we don't have anything to worry about. Linda Beckman, a 70 year old grandmother, who spent the night in jail after publicly objecting to a homosexual rights rally in Philadelphia (an action that violated Penn's hate crimes law) will be glad to know that. So will Scott Savage, who was accused by the Ohio State University office of Human Resources when they voted without dissent to file charges of "sex discrimination and harassment against Mr. Savage because they believed" he committed "anti-gay hate mongering" when he recommended four conservative books for freshman reading in his role as a member of OSU Mansfield