A Question about Doubting Salvation

[eric]

Kittylover,

I understand where you are coming from when you ask about doubting your salvation. I suppose a lot of us has been there, myself included. I have never douted the words of the Lord about how, why, when and where, but I have previously doubted whether or not I have made the cut, if know what I mean. It's not the word or the Lord I used to doubt, it was myself.

As Shiloh explained when doubt stars to enter your mind, the best thing to do is to drop everything and turn to your bible and spend some quality time in the prescence of the Lord.

Now after saying that, I would mention that I am not a good bible reader, because I have not got a retentive memory and by the time I have finished a passage. it's hard for me to remember where I started. However, I'm into the word every day, simply because I never miss a day from WB, unless my puter is in the repair shop, or I'm away, and by so doing When it comes to respond to a post, especially if the poster is suspect in his beliefs, I turn to the particular part of the bible that he is referring to, before I reply... Sorta be like a berean.

Worthy, has been the best tool I have ever had to make drag out my bible. and the team here are second to none. To me it's the best ministry I have ever been aquainted with, and any doubt that I used to have has vanished completely.

I hope this has helped,

God bless brother george and this His ministry and the whole shooting box.

[EricH]

One more question, if someone were to come up to you and tell you that they can look back on a day that they accepted Christ and know that they are saved, but there are days when it becomes a really big question in their mind but not sure why, what would you say? What would you tell them if they say that there is no unrepented sin in their life- they did have unrepentent sin in their life, but now it is taken care of?

Salvation is based solely on the promise of God to those who trust in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. According the Bible, salvation or eternal life is something we have today, not something we are waiting on.

When someone has doubts I take them to John 5: 24 where Jesus says that anyone hears His words and believes upon He who sent Him, has (present tense) eternal life.

Also 1John 5:11-13 also say that all those who believe on Jesus have eternal life today. It is not something we are waiting on, but something we have today. The Bible teaches that we have a "know-so" salvation.

Renewing one's mind in the Word of God is the only sure way to defeat doubt.

As for unrepentant sin, that is a nonissue. I do not remember every sin I have ever committed. If salvation is dependent on being able to remember and repent of every sin you ever committed no one would be saved. Salvation is not based upon my performance or lack thereof. It is not based on how many sins I have confessed. It is the grace of God in spite of my performance that saves me.

Amen

[Guest]

As Shiloh explained when doubt starts to enter your mind, the best thing to do is to drop everything and turn to your bible and spend some quality time in the presence of the Lord.

and the whole shooting box

A Worldwide, 24/7, Combat Zone..... Wow! What A Place For God To Park His Shut-ins!

Cleave

Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.

Acts 11:23

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

[tsth]

We must be careful to remember, that it is the Holy Spirit Who convicts. So, we must not attest the work of the Holy Spirit in conviction of sin, to the Devil.

The difference is this:

The devil will convict of things past, the Holy Spirit will convict of things present.

1 Thess 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction.

John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 16:7 Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[EricH]

We must be careful to remember, that it is the Holy Spirit Who convicts. So, we must not attest the work of the Holy Spirit in conviction of sin, to the Devil.

The difference is this:

The devil will convict of things past, the Holy Spirit will convict of things present.

1 Thess 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction.

John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 16:7 Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:

In His Love,

Suzanne

Thats right. Conviction comes from the Holy Spirit, condemnation and accusation comes from Satan

[tsth]

I think this issue alone, has brought more confusion and damage to the body, than any other I can think of. I think it is so very dangerous for people to think that a "pastor" can assure anyone's salvation.....yet, I have seen far too many whose lifestyles bear NO resemblance to that of a Christian/Christ follower, being assured of a salvation that NEVER REALLY took place.....these are the very ones of whom the preachers are saying "peace and safety, peace and safety"(Jer. 23:16), when in fact they are those that Jesus describes within Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Or "workers of iniquity".

That is why it is so vital that pastor's leave the assuring to "The Holy Spirit" thru God's Word, and if there is conviction and doubt, it may be for a reason. Matthew 13 describes those that did not partake of a true conversion experience, and should not be assured that they have. To assure them of anything else would be a travesty.

Matthew 13:20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

I guess I was a bit surprised that this topic went off the page. I expected to see more comments?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[EricH]

I think this issue alone, has brought more confusion and damage to the body, than any other I can think of. I think it is so very dangerous for people to think that a "pastor" can assure anyone's salvation.....yet, I have seen far too many whose lifestyles bear NO resemblance to that of a Christian/Christ follower, being assured of a salvation that NEVER REALLY took place.....these are the very ones of whom the preachers are saying "peace and safety, peace and safety"(Jer. 23:16), when in fact they are those that Jesus describes within Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Or "workers of iniquity".

That is why it is so vital that pastor's leave the assuring to "The Holy Spirit" thru God's Word, and if there is conviction and doubt, it may be for a reason. Matthew 13 describes those that did not partake of a true conversion experience, and should not be assured that they have. To assure them of anything else would be a travesty.

Matthew 13:20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I think the principle you have articulated above is generally a good one. It is not the pastor's, teacher's, evangelist's job to enforce life change of any kind. Our job is to present the truth, and then let it go. It is the Holy Spirit's job to give assurance, conviction, salvation, growth etc.

[tsth]

Thanks for the comment Eric. I just wanted to evaluate today's current church practice of "assuring" someone of salvation. This is a common practice to tell someone that they SHOULD NEVER doubt their salvation. I find this a tragedy. My husband has counseled many who are troubled after hearing the Word of God preached, because they are walking in darkness and feel convicted and worried. Yet, because they "prayed a prayer" with grandma at age 8, they are left to wonder about true salvation? Then someone of the church or a pastor (with good intentions of course), will come along and tell them that they should NEVER doubt their salvation? Are we making them twice as much a child of hell (Matt. 23:15), by giving a false assurance of a salvation experience that never took place and instead create a house full of hypocrites? Maybe instead, the Word of God should be gone over and a life should be examined, to see, whether or not they are in the faith and Jesus is in them?

2 Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

My husband has said many times, that it's hard to find the lost, as almost everybody he runs into today is already saved, yet the fruit of this nation does not bear that out at all.

(Ok, I've gotten it all out now, and said my peace. )

In His Love,

Suzanne

[EricH]

My husband has said many times, that it's hard to find the lost, as almost everybody he runs into today is already saved, yet the fruit of this nation does not bear that out at all.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Thats why I think it is a shame that folks have memorized Ephesians 2:8-9 and not paid any attention to Ephesians 2:10. Verse 10 states that the outcome of our salvation should be the good works thaty were prepared beforehand for us.

This past spring, I read Dallas Willard's "Renovation of the HEart". It it he states that most people assume that we use the most grace when we come to God for salvation and forgiveness. Willard counters that we use even more grace when we attempt to live out the implications of our salvation. Both the saving and the living are "grace users"

In terms of doubting our salvation, I think that needs to be unpacked more precisely. Some of Paul's teaching imply that we should always be "evaluating our selves" to make sure our lives reflect the reality of the changed life we are supposed to experience at salvation. But, we are not to doubt God's ability and willingness to save us and maintain us in that salvation regardless of how many times we blow it.