In the beginning........

[champion]

In the beginning of what?

I believe this is talking about the beginning of time as WE know it in it's finite-ness.

Good question!

I believe in the beggining refers to the start of time with respect to all that God created. Time is useful for us to count our years; thats why we record a person's human life from beggining to end but God lives in eternity. my question is therefore since we have eternal life that we received from God are also timeless like God.

God is "I AM" not "I WAS" for eternity.

[champion]

I'd say in the beginning of TIME.

[Guest]

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Genesis 1:2-5

God didn't hang around in total darkness for all eternity past and suddenly say to Himself, I should create daylight? What you are stating without Scriptural reference was the event of God's re-creation of the heavens and the Earth after Satan's rebellion, (Gen. 1:2-4).

Possible Dear Brother, Possible.

I Have Heard The Teachings That God Rebuilt His Creation After A War With Satan And His Gang Of Demons.

I Agree It Is Another Possibility Of The Creation Record.

I Do Not Know.

If God Did Do Another Creation, I Think He Then Did A Complete Creation From Scratch.

But I Think My Teachers May Be Wrong And This Is The First Creation.

I Believe It Was Done In The Six Days The Bible Records.

I Think Even With The Cosmos Spread Out Before It, Science Is Still A Long Long Way From Starting to Comprehend God's Power.

Some Think This Tells Of The Earthly Garden Of Eden Before Adam And Eve....

"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

Ezekiel 28:12-13

I Think It Is Eden The Garden Of God In The Third Heavens And Before The Throne Of God.

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Ezekiel 28:14-15

So I Believe The Universe As We See It Is The First Creation.

I Believe You And I Will Some Day Soon Know Wonders That No Man Has A Glimmer Exists.

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

1 Corinthians 2:9

The Greatest Of Which Will Be The Unveiled Glory Of God.

Between The Small Group Of Bible Believers Gathered Together On This Thread, I Have Little Doubt We Can Dig Into God's Wonderful Book Of History And See Many Possible Time Lines God Could Have Used As He Created.

Like Many Christians I First Mixed The Evolution Fable, True Science And God's Word Together Without Really Thinking Much About It.

It Was Not Until I Saw The Hatred Toward The Lord Jesus By Many Of The Evolutionary Apologists That I Woke Up To Its Lie.

I Trust God.

I Know The Holy Bible Is True.

Sometimes I Read Folks Spouting Off About How They Reckon The Patriarchs Did Not Understand Stuff.

The Two Things These Folk Miss Is The Utter Genius Our Forefathers Showed As They Give Us What We Have Today And How Much A Walk And A Talk With God Can Sharpen A Fellow Up.

As God Talked Face To Face Daily With Brother Moses, I Know The TORAH (Pentateuch} Was Recorded And Was Recorded Without Error.

"And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend....."

Exodus 33:11

"And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,"

Deuteronomy 34:10

I May Not Get It All Down Correct But That's OK - God Gets It And He's The One Who Counts.

I Trust 24 Hours to be 24 Hours - I trust Time Started With Day One Genesis 1:1 - I Trust Time Will Stop Revelation 10:6

"And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:"

Revelation 10:6

For Those Who Have No Stake In The Lord Jesus Christ And In This Discussion.....

See Jesus - Be Blessed

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[hupo]

God didn't hang around in total darkness for all eternity past and suddenly say to Himself, I should create daylight? What you are stating without Scriptural reference was the event of God's re-creation of the heavens and the Earth after Satans rebellion, (Gen. 1:2-4).

Do you mean to tell me the heavens and the earth had been created and were now (in Gen 1:2-4) re-created ?!

You do realize of course that if the heavenes and earth were RE-created in the beginning, it means there was something before the beginning.... ?

This is something I haven't yet thought of. It doesn't sound like what happened but it is definatly an interesting view.....

Thanks for the twist

[hupo]

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Genesis 1:2-5

God didn't hang around in total darkness for all eternity past and suddenly say to Himself, I should create daylight? What you are stating without Scriptural reference was the event of God's re-creation of the heavens and the Earth after Satan's rebellion, (Gen. 1:2-4).

Possible Dear Brother, Possible.

I Have Heard The Teachings That God Rebuilt His Creation After A War With Satan And His Gang Of Demons.

I Agree It Is Another Possibility Of The Creation Record.

I Do Not Know.

If God Did Do Another Creation, I Think He Then Did A Complete Creation From Scratch.

But I Think My Teachers May Be Wrong And This Is The First Creation.

I Believe It Was Done In The Six Days The Bible Records.

I Think Even With The Cosmos Spread Out Before It, Science Is Still A Long Long Way From Starting to Comprehend God's Power.

Some Think This Tells Of The Earthly Garden Of Eden Before Adam And Eve....

"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

Ezekiel 28:12-13

I Think It Is Eden The Garden Of God In The Third Heavens And Before The Throne Of God.

"Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Ezekiel 28:14-15

So I Believe The Universe As We See It Is The First Creation.

I Believe You And I Will Some Day Soon Know Wonders That No Man Has A Glimmer Exists.

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

1 Corinthians 2:9

The Greatest Of Which Will Be The Unveiled Glory Of God.

Between The Small Group Of Bible Believers Gathered Together On This Thread, I Have Little Doubt We Can Dig Into God's Wonderful Book Of History And See Many Possible Time Lines God Could Have Used As He Created.

Like Many Christians I First Mixed The Evolution Fable, True Science And God's Word Together Without Really Thinking Much About It.

It Was Not Until I Saw The Hatred Toward The Lord Jesus By Many Of The Evolutionary Apologists That I Woke Up To Its Lie.

I Trust God.

I Know The Holy Bible Is True.

Sometimes I Read Folks Spouting Off About How They Reckon The Patriarchs Did Not Understand Stuff.

The Two Things These Folk Miss Is The Utter Genius Our Forefathers Showed As They Give Us What We Have Today And How Much A Walk And A Talk With God Can Sharpen A Fellow Up.

As God Talked Face To Face Daily With Brother Moses, I Know The TORAH (Pentateuch} Was Recorded And Was Recorded Without Error.

"And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend....."

Exodus 33:11

"And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,"

Deuteronomy 34:10

I May Not Get It All Down Correct But That's OK - God Gets It And He's The One Who Counts.

I Trust 24 Hours to be 24 Hours - I trust Time Started With Day One Genesis 1:1 - I Trust Time Will Stop Revelation 10:6

"And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:"

Revelation 10:6

For Those Who Have No Stake In The Lord Jesus Christ And In This Discussion.....

See Jesus - Be Blessed

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

Dear FresnoJoe,

You know brother, you bring such a calmness and ease into this forum. It's great when you poke your head in and drop a post

Seeing things with such ease and a relaxed acceptance is a blessing for sure.

One of my (many) hiccups is the tendency to play around with logic, and to be honest with you, I really love it (but shhhhhh........... don't tell anyone)

The amazing thing is it seems perfectly ok as long as I remember where logic is and where God is.

So i'll say it again..... all our knowledge and great words will not make the slightest dent in God's plans,

and so, knowing this, we can let loose our logical minds and have fun

Blessings to anyone who wants to join in a healthy logical debate

[nebula]

Do you mean to tell me the heavens and the earth had been created and were now (in Gen 1:2-4) re-created ?!

You do realize of course that if the heavenes and earth were RE-created in the beginning, it means there was something before the beginning.... ?

If it helps, here's the reasoning behind this (or at least how I understand it):

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void;. . . . (Gen. 1, KJV)

Did God create the earth formless and void? Or did the earth somehow become so?

Consider this: there is mention of land and water being separated from one another, but there is no mention of land and water being created, nor is there mention of land structures such as mountains and canyons being made.

So the reasoning behind the re-creation argument is actually not a re-creation of the heavens and earth, but rather a re-creation of the earth's surface and atmosphere.

In other words, this view sees an unknown gap in time between verses 1 & 2.

[nebula]

God didn't hang around in total darkness for all eternity past and suddenly say to Himself, I should create daylight?

That reminds me of a question I had asked a long time ago, and I think it would fit to re-ask it here:

If God is light, why did He need to create it?

And where did the darkness come from?

[hupo]

Do you mean to tell me the heavens and the earth had been created and were now (in Gen 1:2-4) re-created ?!

You do realize of course that if the heavenes and earth were RE-created in the beginning, it means there was something before the beginning.... ?

If it helps, here's the reasoning behind this (or at least how I understand it):

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void;. . . . (Gen. 1, KJV)

Did God create the earth formless and void? Or did the earth somehow become so?

Consider this: there is mention of land and water being separated from one another, but there is no mention of land and water being created, nor is there mention of land structures such as mountains and canyons being made.

So the reasoning behind the re-creation argument is actually not a re-creation of the heavens and earth, but rather a re-creation of the earth's surface and atmosphere.

In other words, this view sees an unknown gap in time between verses 1 & 2.

I would think that God created the heavens and the earth first (in the beginning) and then it is written that the earth was without form and void. Not the heavens, mind you, just the earth.

What could this mean? The heavens is where God acts and creates. The earth is created to (eventually) accomodate Man. It wasn't created ready for Man and this we can see in the fact that day and night, trees plants and animals were created later on, all that Man would need when he would be set on earth on the 6th day.

This might explain the creation of the earth with it's timeline but what about the heavens? Why did God create the heavens?

What was the light that was created in day 1? After all the sun and moon were only created later on day 4.

What are these waters that God's spirit was hovering over before separating them to water above and below?

I would like to suggest another view of creation:-

Before creation, before the beginning, God was. God alone existed. God was one and the only one around.

God was everything and everywhere. There was nothing besides God. This is backed up by all the verses that declare God as the beginning and the end, the everlasting, the Y-H-V-H (in Hebrew) that stands for WAS-IS-WILL BE.

The so called "creation" was actually an act of redefining God as made of several entities: God the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit, for one.....

There was no need for this while God was everything. In fact it is a pure paradox (much to the delight of non-trinitarians, I guess).

What if all this separation was God's way of creating Man, for instance, where Man cannot really exist, for if Man exists and is not God, it stands to reason that there is something besides God in the universe! This in turn means that God is not everything....is not everywhere.........

I don't believe this is the case and so the other way to see it is that Man created is actually God separating part of Himself to be a sort of entity without the awareness of being God. This can be seen in the verse (gen 1:6) "Then God said "let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the the waters from the waters. This in turn would mean that Man does not really exist as an individual but is actually a part of God that was intentionally "blinded" by lack of awareness.

I said somewhere that the difference between an atheist and a believer in God is:

A believer believes that God exists while an atheist believes Man exists.

This in turn means that we don't exist as individuals, we are part of God. We are the part of God that God himself separated from Himself by taking our awareness away. This would explain Man being created in God's image. Sinning is our way of seeing that we are on the wrong way. Wrong way to what? Wrong way to getting back to "us" being a selfless part of the greater God.

Who in his right mind wants to let go of this (artificial) self? Most people don't. It is a built in part of not having the Godly awareness.

Our salvation is in fact the way to blend back (in our minds) into the only existing entity in the universe - God Himself

Note: I never mentioned Yeshua as Yeshua IS God and only our lack of Godly awareness needs a separation of God into the three Trinity personalities of God.

(WHY God would take away the awareness of parts of Himself, is another topic, too large to start in this thread)

Blessings to all in Worthy

[nebula]

God didn't hang around in total darkness for all eternity past and suddenly say to Himself, I should create daylight? What you are stating without Scriptural reference was the event of God's re-creation of the heavens and the Earth after Satans rebellion, (Gen. 1:2-4).

how do you know God didn't do that?

Because God is light!

Darkness is the absence of light, is it not?

So where did the darkness come from? Or in this perspective, where was light (God) not existent for there to be no light present?

[hupo]

God didn't hang around in total darkness for all eternity past and suddenly say to Himself, I should create daylight? What you are stating without Scriptural reference was the event of God's re-creation of the heavens and the Earth after Satans rebellion, (Gen. 1:2-4).

how do you know God didn't do that?

Because God is light!

Darkness is the absence of light, is it not?

So where did the darkness come from? Or in this perspective, where was light (God) not existent for there to be no light present?

Interesting issue.

Is light the absence of darkness?

or

is darkness the absence of light?

(What came first, the chicken or the egg?)

For the most part it sounds like darkness is the absence of light.

But then, God is light (at least I believe so)

In this case what sense would "Let there be light" make?

On the other hand, if light is the absense of darkness, and God is light. it means that God depends on there being no darkness, God's existance depends on something?!?!

Blessings