Family Out of Order

[tsth]

I am deeply troubled that our family order (God implemented), has self-destructed. If you read in Scripture, there was a perfect order ordained by God for everything, but especially for the church body and the family body.

We have lost our heads! There is no order in either, (for the most part). Man and woman were to come together in marriage for a very distinct purpose in God's eyes, but we have taken it upon ourselves to superimpose our own order now, and that includes the order of the family body. Our children are confused! They do not understand commitment and the Oneness of the marriage covenant, and adultery, is the in thing now. Whether we want to admit it or not, we have now become a nation of fornication by majority. To live with another person, and not be married, is a work of the flesh, not the spirit.

I see how many problems this causes for the children, who have no say so in the matter, yet will reap a harvest of unrighteousness from this practice. They are being taught that the sanctity of marriage is no longer valid, and will continue the legacy. I am distraught over this. Marriage was to be a covenant, but we decided we didn't like that order ordained by God, so we think we'll go around it, and just not get married. It doesn't work, it causes us as a nation to jump from bed to bed and relationship to relationship. It is damaging to our children.

To destroy the order of families, is to destroy the very fabric of society. Once the family loses it's head, so does everything else, because the order is out of whack. The first order of things is God/Christ/Husband/Wife/Child. When that order becomes fractured, the whole of a nation does too. We have missed the mark in all the areas above. God is not revered, Christ is not revered, Husband/Father is not respected, Wife/Mother is not cherished. Children become out of control. The balance God implemented is off, due to the disobedience of the people, therefore the nation will suffer the outcome. You could do a whole study of each person being out of kilter. Men don't lead, women do, children do. All wrong. It is not according to the ranking that God ordained. A family is much like an army. It was established with a certain order/chain of command. If the footmen begin having authority over the captains, then you have a very inneffective army unit. It is weakened greatly.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[OopsMartin]

It is not according to the ranking that God ordained. A family is much like an army.

Well, to each there own. My family isn't like an army. It is a safe haven from the carnality of the world. It is a place where two equals can join hands against the world and stand in mutual admiration of each other and God. It is a place where two unique individuals can use their gifts joyously and sacrificially supporting each other.

I save my army gear for the work of the church.

[Natt]

Hi Suzanne,

I agree with you largely here.

I am taking it that you are talking about Christian families. Most adults I've met in the church are married but many are in 2nd or 3rd marriages. There are many reasons for this. Some biblical, others not. However, in NZ anyway, I don't know any who are in de-facto relationships. One case I am familiar with resulted in the couple being asked to leave the church OR get married. I see this as a matter of Chruch Discipline.

Non-Christian relationships are different though. My brother is not a christian but has been living with his partner for 12 years now. They have two beautiful girls and have treated their relationship with the commitment that any married couple should. They have the attitude that they are to stay together no matter what. The result is that they have two children with no behavioral problems at all. I can only pray that one day they will come to know God and Christ.

Bringing up children with next to no help is difficult. I'm in that category. Children can get out of control. There is a saying "Bringing up children is a community's responsibility." It helps that people don't blame you. Many do if you have a highly strung child.

Having two parents is always ideal but we have all made mistakes. Some bigger than others. Others have a break in the family order because of a tragedy. Both sets of my great-grandmothers were solo-parents for a good amount of their parenting lives because of death in the family. They had various problems.

I am not sure if you are on about pre-marital sex, adultery, children out of control, or family order here. Sometimes things that are past wrongs cannot be changed and we are stuck with the consequences. We can learn from them and hopefully it will prevent others from making the same mistakes. We can also see it as an opportunity to help each other out.

[tsth]

Hi Suzanne,

I agree with you largely here.

I am taking it that you are talking about Christian families. Most adults I've met in the church are married but many are in 2nd or 3rd marriages. There are many reasons for this. Some biblical, others not. However, in NZ anyway, I don't know any who are in de-facto relationships. One case I am familiar with resulted in the couple being asked to leave the church OR get married. I see this as a matter of Chruch Discipline.

Non-Christian relationships are different though. My brother is not a christian but has been living with his partner for 12 years now. They have two beautiful girls and have treated their relationship with the commitment that any married couple should. They have the attitude that they are to stay together no matter what. The result is that they have two children with no behavioral problems at all. I can only pray that one day they will come to know God and Christ.

Bringing up children with next to no help is difficult. I'm in that category. Children can get out of control. There is a saying "Bringing up children is a community's responsibility." It helps that people don't blame you. Many do if you have a highly strung child.

Having two parents is always ideal but we have all made mistakes. Some bigger than others. Others have a break in the family order because of a tragedy. Both sets of my great-grandmothers were solo-parents for a good amount of their parenting lives because of death in the family. They had various problems.

I am not sure if you are on about pre-marital sex, adultery, children out of control, or family order here. Sometimes things that are past wrongs cannot be changed and we are stuck with the consequences. We can learn from them and hopefully it will prevent others from making the same mistakes. We can also see it as an opportunity to help each other out.

I agree about past wrongs/sins, mine included, but the only way that they will be remedied within the body, is if the body is willing to start addressing them...and that involves being honest enough to recognize that our "wrongs" were sin, and the next generation needs to be told the Truth!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

It is not according to the ranking that God ordained. A family is much like an army.

Well, to each there own. My family isn't like an army. It is a safe haven from the carnality of the world. It is a place where two equals can join hands against the world and stand in mutual admiration of each other and God. It is a place where two unique individuals can use their gifts joyously and sacrificially supporting each other.

I save my army gear for the work of the church.

Dear OopsMartin,

You may not be crazy about the army analogy, but frankly it didn't come from me. It actually was the wording used with regard to the instructed order and submission of family members, mentioned in Scriptures:

Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them. 20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.

submit

Strongs

uJpotavssw from (5259) and (5021)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Hupotasso 8:39,1156

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech

hoop-ot-as'-so Verb

Definition

to arrange under, to subordinate

to subject, put in subjection

to subject one's self, obey

to submit to one's control

to yield to one's admonition or advice

to obey, be subject

A Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in amilitary fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use,it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assumingresponsibility, and carrying a burden".

The analagy using a military term, to me is appropriate, especially in this day and time, since we should be constantly "defending" our family members from the things that the enemy may try to use to get them lured away. It is the ideal term for the defense of our family, it is a true battle with unseen entities to keep our children from the ways of the enemy.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Natt]

Hi Suzanne,

I agree with you largely here.

I am taking it that you are talking about Christian families. Most adults I've met in the church are married but many are in 2nd or 3rd marriages. There are many reasons for this. Some biblical, others not. However, in NZ anyway, I don't know any who are in de-facto relationships. One case I am familiar with resulted in the couple being asked to leave the church OR get married. I see this as a matter of Chruch Discipline.

Non-Christian relationships are different though. My brother is not a christian but has been living with his partner for 12 years now. They have two beautiful girls and have treated their relationship with the commitment that any married couple should. They have the attitude that they are to stay together no matter what. The result is that they have two children with no behavioral problems at all. I can only pray that one day they will come to know God and Christ.

Bringing up children with next to no help is difficult. I'm in that category. Children can get out of control. There is a saying "Bringing up children is a community's responsibility." It helps that people don't blame you. Many do if you have a highly strung child.

Having two parents is always ideal but we have all made mistakes. Some bigger than others. Others have a break in the family order because of a tragedy. Both sets of my great-grandmothers were solo-parents for a good amount of their parenting lives because of death in the family. They had various problems.

I am not sure if you are on about pre-marital sex, adultery, children out of control, or family order here. Sometimes things that are past wrongs cannot be changed and we are stuck with the consequences. We can learn from them and hopefully it will prevent others from making the same mistakes. We can also see it as an opportunity to help each other out.

I agree about past wrongs/sins, mine included, but the only way that they will be remedied within the body, is if the body is willing to start addressing them...and that involves being honest enough to recognize that our "wrongs" were sin, and the next generation needs to be told the Truth!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[OopsMartin]

It is not according to the ranking that God ordained. A family is much like an army.

Well, to each there own. My family isn't like an army. It is a safe haven from the carnality of the world. It is a place where two equals can join hands against the world and stand in mutual admiration of each other and God. It is a place where two unique individuals can use their gifts joyously and sacrificially supporting each other.

I save my army gear for the work of the church.

Dear OopsMartin,

You may not be crazy about the army analogy, but frankly it didn't come from me. It actually was the wording used with regard to the instructed order and submission of family members, mentioned in Scriptures:

Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them. 20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.

submit

Strongs

uJpotavssw from (5259) and (5021)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Hupotasso 8:39,1156

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech

hoop-ot-as'-so Verb

Definition

to arrange under, to subordinate

to subject, put in subjection

to subject one's self, obey

to submit to one's control

to yield to one's admonition or advice

to obey, be subject

A Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in amilitary fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use,it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assumingresponsibility, and carrying a burden".

The analagy using a military term, to me is appropriate, especially in this day and time, since we should be constantly "defending" our family members from the things that the enemy may try to use to get them lured away. It is the ideal term for the defense of our family, it is a true battle with unseen entities to keep our children from the ways of the enemy.

In His Love,

Suzanne

You corrected yourself......

"In non-military use,it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden"."

You got that from Vine's, correct? I've done a heap of studying about the use of upotasso and upotassomenoi in the NT passages. And I can assure you that in reference to marriage it was about as far as one can get away from any military ranking as one can get.

I truly deeply feel sorry for anyone that thinks cooperating within marriage is a matter of "hup to-ing" a boss. That is equally as damaging to the supposed boss as it is for the private under command. I've seen enough of those kinds of marriages to know the difference.

Off to church shortly, no time this morning.

[tsth]

Again, it is a matter of how "authority" is viewed in the home. Is the position abused? If not, is the position honored/respected? Either way, the authority is supposed to be there, regardless. But, whether the husband of the family is under authority to Christ is important, just as it is equally important for the wife to follow suit and the children. But, the "order" is supposed to be there. Now, if it is viewed as having a master, that is due to sin, and not to error on God's part for instituting order and roles within the family. This is always how it was supposed to be.

If the wife is not pleased about the authority, then it is equivalent to the passage in Hosea and the symbolism to marriage.

Hosea 2:16 16 "In that day," declares the Lord, "you will call me 'my husband'; you will no longer call me 'my master.'

(Why the reference to "husband and master"? Why not "father and master?)

But, even in the case of an unbelieving husband the order is still commanded.

1 Peter 3:1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear. 7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Emily~Anne]

Abusive authority is oppressing, Godly authority is protective. Satan would like you to believe the only kind of authority there is, is the oppressive kind. This leaves us more vulnerable to Satan's attacks on us. Satan does not want families under the protective umbrella of God's design for authority in families.

We must avoid leaning on our own understanding and instead acknowledge Him in everything and He will make our paths straight, just like the top verse in my signature says!

[tsth]

That is SO true EmilyAnne! I have believed both and found God's instruction with regard to the family so much more abundant! I cannot believe I EVER doubted these things.

In His Love,

Suzanne