Family Out of Order

[OopsMartin]

OC The fact that priests who were male were appointed to oversee the feasts, tithes, meeting of the temple, etc. has absolutely no relevance to families. By you relating a priest to a husband, you also infer that a congregation is like a wife. Households are not little churches. You link priest-congregation, with husband-wife. Obviously you are not aware you are doing this. You cannot link a church with a home and a priest with a husband, and NOT also link the congregation with the wife.

For your information, 1 Tim. 3:5 does not say

[exrockstar]

It seems you are making huge stretches in trying to relate incidences of women doing wickedness in the Temple of God and there being male Priests whose responsibility it was to keep order.

1. The Temples of worship are not like a home, they are places where all households come to worship.

2. Husbands are not like priests ..... priests and spiritual leaders are called and gifted by God.

3. the wife is not a man's "congregation", neither is the congregation like a "wife" to a pastor.

we're talking about Old testament right?

ONLY FOR THE TEMPLE OF WORSHIP?

temple of worship had a male high priest who comes before God as a representative for

the nation. The head of the family is MAN who comes to the temple to represent his family.

It was Job, it was Adam, it was Cain and Able...etc etc etc.

There is an order and you can jump hoops through it all you want but all we're going to see you jump hoops.

i think that everyones just looks at the humanitarian part of Jesus Christ and doesn't acknowledge the Old Testament.

If the "word became flesh" do you not think that when Christ roamed earth He supported the order of the OT?

many people need to stop looking at movies where Christ actors walk around with their faces glowing and have looks of serenity in them.

there is very soothing but dramatic music as he broke the bread but was that same music

playing when he wiped out hundreds of thousands when the nation made it to the promise land?

im sure society loves you because you are screaming for equality but your mixing earthly gender viewpoint with divine order.

that same society that loves you also thinks your crazy because you believe in Adam and Eve and not evolution.

Christianity is a tough pill to swallow and this is all testing.

How far are you willing to seperate from this world and accept what is in a book called the Bible?

[Openly Curious]

I found this article which I think is excellent. sorry I don't know the author

God placed the husband at the head of the family to lead, guide and inspire it - not as a dictatorial monster, but as a loving authority whose wife and children are the highest priority of his life. God created marriage when He created Adam and Eve. Neither of the first humans was complete without the other. Together a man and wife become a team - two people, making one new and complete unit. God says of marriage, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh" (Genesis 2:24).

Yet, as in any other facet of life, there has to be leadership. Even in the Family of God, the Father is over Jesus Christ , who is the Son. Christ is subject to God in everything. But they live in perfect harmony and unity. God is the perfect Father and executes His leadership with unfailing love. But does anyone doubt that He is in charge?

Christ is Head of the Church. He presides over it with equally deep concern and love. In fact, the spiritual analogy in the Bible shows that Christ's relationship with the Church will be like a marital relationship. Notice how the Bible describes the coming of Christ: "Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife [the church] has made herself ready' (Revelation 19:7).

The relationship of Christ, in God's Kingdom, to spirit-born saints will be as a husband to a wife. Most of us have no fears of submitting to Christ. We know He is filled with love, that He is not a harsh dictator, that we will have an eternal relationship.

If the husbands would pattern their leadership and loving authority after that of Jesus Christ, women would never feel abused and rejected. Sad to say, throughout most of human history, few men have patterned their relationship after that great example.

But you can.

God Bless,

K.D.

Great post and very true thanks for posting

OC

[OopsMartin]

First off I made no guesses whatsoever at what scriptures exrockstar was thinking about and I want to make that very clear here. Do you not see unrulyness going on in the house of God in any of this. In the book of 1 Samuel you can read where Eli's two sons Hophni and Phenhas where doing wickedness in the house of God and they were priests in the temple and they was sleeping with the women who came out to the temple and doing all kinds of wickedness you can read about.

The rulers of the temple were males so for any wickedness to go on in the temple it had to be allowed by the priest. And Eli didn't correct his two sons but allowed them to continue to do wicked things and he was judged for it.

You see in God's house there has always been order but if we don't abide by the plan of God both men and women in God's designed order then both the men and women when they come to the house of God will be praying and worshipping who knows what in their hearts and not worshipping God in the manner that He has given to us to follow in His order in the word.

OC

It seems you are making huge stretches in trying to relate incidences of women doing wickedness in the Temple of God and there being male Priests whose responsibility it was to keep order.

1. The Temples of worship are not like a home, they are places where all households come to worship.

2. Husbands are not like priests ..... priests and spiritual leaders are called and gifted by God.

3. the wife is not a man's "congregation", neither is the congregation like a "wife" to a pastor.

OopsMartin, this was very well done! And thank you too for trying to bring this back onto the subject. If we were wanting to relate the congregation with the family, then we certainly couldn't relate the priests to the husband since in God's family, God is the Father not the priests. Also in the human family, husband and wife together are the "one-flesh" authority over the children not a progression of levels of authority. Good job Oops!

Oh, and thank you for further clarifying it. I was getting stuck on the illogic of calling a husband a priest.

In the family of God, God is the father. We all are brothers and sisters, and our pastors (shepards not priests) are servants of God to do His bidding, who do not lead to be served.

[inhistime]

exrockstar said: The head of the family is MAN who comes to the temple to represent his family.

It was Job, it was Adam, it was Cain and Able...etc etc etc.

Where does the bible say that the man is "the" head of the family? Their is nothing in scripture that says this. The husband and wife are in charge of the family and she is called to rule her family in 1 Timothy 5:14. What some translation render "keep house" is the Greek word oikodespoteō #3616 which means to be the head of (that is, rule) a family: - guide the house.

Husband and wife both guide the household and both are given equal authority with the children. If Adam was to represent his family alone, then why didn't God ask him to represent Eve after the fall? No, each person was responsible for their own sin and each was responsible. Adam was not responsible to speak for Eve. In the same way Ananias was not responsible to speak for Sapphira (Acts 5) when he made the decision to lie to the Holy Spirit and she supported him. They each were responsible for their own sin.

[Ovedya]

The fall of man is attributed to Adam because of his transgression and due to his headship, not because he was deceived (1 Tim. 2:13-14)

Because he was the first of the old creation, Adam held the first place in the old creation. Therefore, as head of the old creation, Adam is attributed with the fall of the old creation. Christ, as the last Adam, is the first of the new creation and so has the first place in the new creation. He is the head of the new creation.

The Bible is abundantly clear that God has established headship after a certain fashion for the regaining of order and peace in the universe. That divine order expresses itself practically in the local churches and in the household, which is the core of the local churches.

[Openly Curious]

'OopsMartin'

OC The fact that priests who were male were appointed to oversee the feasts, tithes, meeting of the temple, etc. has absolutely no relevance to families.

Oops, I understand clearly what the priesthood was put in place to do they were to do and oversee the work at the temple when the people of Israel would come to the temple which were families as they had an outer court that was used for fellowship when they came where they ate the sacrificial offerings that were approved with the priests. Temple worship and families just go hand in hand unless you are saying that only single folks got to go for worship at the temple.

By you relating a priest to a husband, you also infer that a congregation is like a wife.

Well I thought we had just went through this as it "IS NOT ME" that is relating a priest to a husband and quite frankly I am growing weary with this false accusation towards me after I have told several times now that those are your thoughts and not mine. Christ is our High Priest and Christ is the Head of the Church and Christ is the Bridegroom and "NOT" the priests or pastors and the congregation of believers is the Bride of Christ. Now I have clarified my position pretty plainly here so I hope I want hear those false accusations any more that you are relating to me.

Households are not little churches.

I never said households were little churches I said a man woman and children make up a body called a family. Although there have been a many a church had in peoples homes and households even in the book of Acts it was going on and is still going on what's wrong with that are you against that also? Once again your trying to put words in my mouth.

You link priest-congregation, with husband-wife. Obviously you are not aware you are doing this. You cannot link a church with a home and a priest with a husband, and NOT also link the congregation with the wife.

Well here you go yet once again saying things I never said or insinuated. I "NEVER" linked the priest with the congregation but view the priests as the leadership that oversees God's household only. Did you hear me? Please read it a second time so you will.

What I am linking is Christ and the church as Christ is the head of the Church the Bridegroom and Bride not a mortal man and the Bride wake up and smell the coffee.

For your information, 1 Tim. 3:5 does not say

[Ovedya]

You cannot link a church with a home and a priest with a husband, and NOT also link the congregation with the wife.

The Bible does both. The first century church met "from house to house." They were families who struggled together in the church-life. It's ridiculous to believe that the church does not consist of families. The church corporately is the Bride of Christ; and Christ Himself is both the husband of the Bride and the high priest of the church. Different aspects, yes, but within the context of the church as the incorporation of all the saints in the Body.

[inhistime]

The fall of man is attributed to Adam because of his transgression and due to his headship, not because he was deceived (1 Tim. 2:13-14)

Because he was the first of the old creation, Adam held the first place in the old creation. Therefore, as head of the old creation, Adam is attributed with the fall of the old creation. Christ, as the last Adam, is the first of the new creation and so has the first place in the new creation. He is the head of the new creation.

The Bible is abundantly clear that God has established headship after a certain fashion for the regaining of order and peace in the universe. That divine order expresses itself practically in the local churches and in the household, which is the core of the local churches.

Where does the bible say that Adam was credited with bringing sin into the world because he was the first one created? No, Adam was credited because he sinned willfully and with knowledge. Adam was not deceived so his rebellion brought rebellion into the world. Eve fell into sin, she did not walk into sin with her eyes wide open in rebellion. She was fully deceived and therefore she could not bring the sin of rebellion into the world. When we attribute sin to Adam because he was male and because he was the first one created, then we are attributing favoritism to God. But if we understand as scripture says that Adam's sin was different than Eve's and God judges the motives of one's heart, then we surely can understand why sin came through Adam.

Jesus too is the last Adam because just as Adam brought rebellion into the world through his act of rebellion, so Christ brings righteousness through his righteousness. When we were "in" Adam we fell with him. When we are "in" Christ his righteousness is attributed to us on our behalf. Praise God that Christ took my sins and your sins and allowed me to be "in" him. This is the very basis of Christianity.

[exrockstar]

exrockstar said: The head of the family is MAN who comes to the temple to represent his family.

It was Job, it was Adam, it was Cain and Able...etc etc etc.

Where does the bible say that the man is "the" head of the family? Their is nothing in scripture that says this. The husband and wife are in charge of the family and she is called to rule her family in 1 Timothy 5:14. What some translation render "keep house" is the Greek word oikodespoteō #3616 which means to be the head of (that is, rule) a family: - guide the house.

Husband and wife both guide the household and both are given equal authority with the children. If Adam was to represent his family alone, then why didn't God ask him to represent Eve after the fall? No, each person was responsible for their own sin and each was responsible. Adam was not responsible to speak for Eve. In the same way Ananias was not responsible to speak for Sapphira (Acts 5) when he made the decision to lie to the Holy Spirit and she supported him. They each were responsible for their own sin.

Adam did represent Eve after the fall (plus Caine and Abel and sisters).

are you familiar with sacrificial offering?

Who do you think taught Caine and Abel (who were males) to sacrifice in Gen 4?

you do know they sacrificed..right?

which, if you got your study cap on, can conclude that since Caine murdered Able they already had a family because

they were both sacrificing in behalf of their families.

edited to say: can you find in scirpture where God showed Adam how to sacrifice? i was just curious if you knew of this?

not that it'll satisfy you but wondered if you knew about this.