Guest Biblicist Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 The least shall be the greatest. . . Amen. We are to delight in giving service, not seek to be served. Oh, well, I still want to be served to. . . I'm just willing to do my fair share of serving also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted July 16, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted July 16, 2007 The least shall be the greatest. . . Amen. We are to delight in giving service, not seek to be served. Oh, well, I still want to be served to. . . I'm just willing to do my fair share of serving also. Well be careful of that want..... is it a need or a want. hehe How about a hope. We just hope someone else wants to delight in giving service and hope that we might be one of the recipients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted July 16, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2007 I am deeply troubled that our family order (God implemented), has self-destructed. If you read in Scripture, there was a perfect order ordained by God for everything, but especially for the church body and the family body. We have lost our heads! There is no order in either, (for the most part). Man and woman were to come together in marriage for a very distinct purpose in God's eyes, but we have taken it upon ourselves to superimpose our own order now, and that includes the order of the family body. Our children are confused! They do not understand commitment and the Oneness of the marriage covenant, and adultery, is the in thing now. Whether we want to admit it or not, we have now become a nation of fornication by majority. To live with another person, and not be married, is a work of the flesh, not the spirit. I see how many problems this causes for the children, who have no say so in the matter, yet will reap a harvest of unrighteousness from this practice. They are being taught that the sanctity of marriage is no longer valid, and will continue the legacy. I am distraught over this. Marriage was to be a covenant, but we decided we didn't like that order ordained by God, so we think we'll go around it, and just not get married. It doesn't work, it causes us as a nation to jump from bed to bed and relationship to relationship. It is damaging to our children. To destroy the order of families, is to destroy the very fabric of society. Once the family loses it's head, so does everything else, because the order is out of whack. The first order of things is God/Christ/Husband/Wife/Child. When that order becomes fractured, the whole of a nation does too. We have missed the mark in all the areas above. God is not revered, Christ is not revered, Husband/Father is not respected, Wife/Mother is not cherished. Children become out of control. The balance God implemented is off, due to the disobedience of the people, therefore the nation will suffer the outcome. You could do a whole study of each person being out of kilter. Men don't lead, women do, children do. All wrong. It is not according to the ranking that God ordained. A family is much like an army. It was established with a certain order/chain of command. If the footmen begin having authority over the captains, then you have a very inneffective army unit. It is weakened greatly. Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. In His Love, Suzanne you have two things happening: 1. you have society really pushing "equality" in the sexes that the focus is not on family but on self. 2. you have Christians pushing "equality" in the sexes and and point out the bad but not the good. these in turn affects the generations of Christians growing up because they tend to be confused on what roles are accomplished in a family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted July 16, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 I am deeply troubled that our family order (God implemented), has self-destructed. If you read in Scripture, there was a perfect order ordained by God for everything, but especially for the church body and the family body. We have lost our heads! There is no order in either, (for the most part). Man and woman were to come together in marriage for a very distinct purpose in God's eyes, but we have taken it upon ourselves to superimpose our own order now, and that includes the order of the family body. Our children are confused! They do not understand commitment and the Oneness of the marriage covenant, and adultery, is the in thing now. Whether we want to admit it or not, we have now become a nation of fornication by majority. To live with another person, and not be married, is a work of the flesh, not the spirit. I see how many problems this causes for the children, who have no say so in the matter, yet will reap a harvest of unrighteousness from this practice. They are being taught that the sanctity of marriage is no longer valid, and will continue the legacy. I am distraught over this. Marriage was to be a covenant, but we decided we didn't like that order ordained by God, so we think we'll go around it, and just not get married. It doesn't work, it causes us as a nation to jump from bed to bed and relationship to relationship. It is damaging to our children. To destroy the order of families, is to destroy the very fabric of society. Once the family loses it's head, so does everything else, because the order is out of whack. The first order of things is God/Christ/Husband/Wife/Child. When that order becomes fractured, the whole of a nation does too. We have missed the mark in all the areas above. God is not revered, Christ is not revered, Husband/Father is not respected, Wife/Mother is not cherished. Children become out of control. The balance God implemented is off, due to the disobedience of the people, therefore the nation will suffer the outcome. You could do a whole study of each person being out of kilter. Men don't lead, women do, children do. All wrong. It is not according to the ranking that God ordained. A family is much like an army. It was established with a certain order/chain of command. If the footmen begin having authority over the captains, then you have a very inneffective army unit. It is weakened greatly. Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. In His Love, Suzanne you have two things happening: 1. you have society really pushing "equality" in the sexes that the focus is not on family but on self. 2. you have Christians pushing "equality" in the sexes and and point out the bad but not the good. these in turn affects the generations of Christians growing up because they tend to be confused on what roles are accomplished in a family. I agree. I purchased a set of children's bible study books that were written in the 50's. They were based on a Christian family and the focus was on the kids and their questions and studies, and their discussions with their parents and an adult neighbor friend. The series was a fictional account of life in the 50's. I really was amazed at how different the family structure was, and the mannerisms of the kids. The books had a whole different feel to them. They were so basic. It was pretty much a "Leave It To Beaver" family of Christians. As we read these books we were so struck by the decency of the time....even in the segments regarding the kids in school. RESPECT was an actual concept for ALL the kids in school, not just the Christian kids. It was just full of examples of respect for authority and a different time. Today, in comparison, is a very prideful society, I am sorry to say. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted July 16, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted July 16, 2007 The woman has become the head of the household. Contrast the family of today with the family of 50 years ago and that fact will become quite obvious. It is very interesting that you say women have become head of the household when what you are meaning to describe is a woman wrongly controlling, bossing husband and family according to her wishes. Certainly you do not mean to paint those characteristics as descriptive of a "head of the household" according to Scripture standards. A Christian "head of household" (for those who like that term) would be a gentle man, considerate of his wife's needs, desires, and interests. He would be a man who desired to sacrificially love his wife as if she were his own body. And a father who would seek to work with his wife in training up their children to serve the Lord, not bossing, overly disciplining or exasperating his children. And he would seek to provide for and protect his family to the best of his ability. Secular society uses the term to denote who is responsible for the children. I don't think we should allow secular terminology to influence us as Christians. However, contrast the family of today with the family of 50 years ago, and ever so often what you have is an intimidated housebound woman bossed and controlled by a husband who neglected his children so that they basically grew up without ever having a deep connection with their father. I was a teen 50 years ago so I remember well. In my rather large family I don't know of one truly happy marriage established in those years. Just because they stayed married doesn't mean it was a good marriage. There were a lot of unhappy people just hunkering down and accepting their lot in life, making the best of it. In every generation in spite of all the modernizations or lack thereof, there are good marriages and bad marriages. The 50's had their good things and their bad things. Today we have our good things and our bad things. Honestly, as far as marriages are concerned I would not want to return to the 50's. In fact, I cannot think of much about the 50's I'd want to return to. Well, maybe the 5 cent popsicles. To my thinking I'd rather go further back to when the whole family was involved in running their own business. Children participated with mom and dad in daily life. I'd rather ride a horse and take my time viewing the countryside. But I would miss the ability to get a decent education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natt Posted July 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2007 There are three families I can think of straight away who definately having the father taking his role as the head very seriously. One of them are my grandparents (married 64 years) , the other two a bit younger. I see them all as very happy in still in love. The guy doesn't abuse his authority but he showers his wife with tokens of love. Before I was a Christian and for a while I became one I could never understand why women would obey that commandment. I saw them as being as doormats. But seeing how happy, content and commited these couples are, the idea that you can love a man so much to obey them is the ultimate. With this commandment I could never marry anyone unless they can treat me with respect, love, kindness, consideration etc... Before I would think I could change them because they would change if they loved me. How wrong I was. In marriage ceremonies the obedience to the husband is often taken out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted July 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 Dear Natt, I have observed these things too. As well as observing marriages where the husband is not respected, either due to his own actions or the wife's. But, I truly believe that just as women desire closeness and love, husbands truly desire respect and admiration in their own home. And in marriages where that is not present, husbands and wives are usually striving against each other consistently, and the conflict usually manifests itself outwardly. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 The least shall be the greatest. . . Amen. We are to delight in giving service, not seek to be served. Oh, well, I still want to be served too. . . I'm just willing to do my fair share of serving also. Well be careful of that want..... is it a need or a want. hehe How about a hope. We just hope someone else wants to delight in giving service and hope that we might be one of the recipients. Marriages are out of whack because husbands are not willing to understand the way God wishes them to behave within the marriage relationship. When God gave His commands, "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church" for example, it wasn't because he knew that would be easy for the man to do. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted July 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2007 The least shall be the greatest. . . Amen. We are to delight in giving service, not seek to be served. Oh, well, I still want to be served too. . . I'm just willing to do my fair share of serving also. Well be careful of that want..... is it a need or a want. hehe How about a hope. We just hope someone else wants to delight in giving service and hope that we might be one of the recipients. Marriages are out of whack because husbands are not willing to understand the way God wishes them to behave within the marriage relationship. When God gave His commands, "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church" for example, it wasn't because he knew that would be easy for the man to do. . . i will agree with you to some extent. however, some use the excuse of "men not stepping up of the plate" to taint all men as a whole (and some taint scripture). 1. there are good men out there 2. if life has caused one to be bitter; please dont take it out on scripture and feel vocal about it. it's the "misery loves company..." concept. 3. no one told x female to pick a bad man in the first place. now shes pregnant, in an abusive relationship, husband has no relationship with God but it's God's fault? She reads a good theological book emphasizing SELF SELF SELF. loves Oprah. Now she challenges scripture and challenges the idea that man is this and female is that. it may be unintentional but some people thrive on getting others to side with them. you can see it in these posts sometimes. no one wants to hear that a man is head of household. these people will talk til theyre blue in the face. although everyone agrees that its not about abusing authority some will not stand for any man telling them anything. what can i tell them? "sorry there arent any positive male role models in your life...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted July 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Marriages are out of whack because husbands are not willing to understand the way God wishes them to behave within the marriage relationship. When God gave His commands, "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church" for example, it wasn't because he knew that would be easy for the man to do. . . i will agree with you to some extent. however, some use the excuse of "men not stepping up of the plate" to taint all men as a whole (and some taint scripture). 1. there are good men out there 2. if life has caused one to be bitter; please dont take it out on scripture and feel vocal about it. it's the "misery loves company..." concept. 3. no one told x female to pick a bad man in the first place. now shes pregnant, in an abusive relationship, husband has no relationship with God but it's God's fault? She reads a good theological book emphasizing SELF SELF SELF. loves Oprah. Now she challenges scripture and challenges the idea that man is this and female is that. it may be unintentional but some people thrive on getting others to side with them. you can see it in these posts sometimes. no one wants to hear that a man is head of household. these people will talk til theyre blue in the face. although everyone agrees that its not about abusing authority some will not stand for any man telling them anything. what can i tell them? "sorry there arent any positive male role models in your life...." I agree with you to a large extent exrockstar. But I would say that the husband should be the primary protector and provider of the family. In this way we define the sacrificial and respectful behavior that Scripture outlines instead of using a term that can be used positively or badly depending on the inclinations of the user. It is also less effective to take a red neck approach to these things. People pick wrong all the time, but we don't need to beat them up again over it. That isn't our job as Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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