Harry Potter to be or not to be

[Emily~Anne]

Does it not make sense that these characters have never existed in real life and therefore can not actually be considered to have souls or to be put under Biblical standards? They're fictional, and NO ONE in the books is doing anything that would constitute performing real magic, sorcery, or otherwise.

It does not matter if they are fictional we are still dealing with a subject that is not honouring to God. So what its a work of fiction, it is a major tool of Satan to pull children away from God by making them interested in witchcraft and occult.

vast majority of pornography is also fictional. Is it ok then for me to sit and watch and read lots of hardcore porn, because after all the story's are fictional and the characters are also fictional.

Exactly!

[Emily~Anne]

emily, i'm on your side of this issue, but please, is it necessary for it to become a debate over whether the magic portrayed is accurate? it doesn't matter what articles iryssa posts in defense of her position, the only source that is relevant here is what God's word says on the issue.... right?

Apparently God's word isn't enough for them on the issue.

Excuse me, I'm right here, so don't talk about me like I'm not. For one thing, I've already said that I believe real witchcraft is evil. For another, God's word doesn't say anything on how Wiccans perform their craft. For third, the difference between fiction and non-fiction IS important (something I wish people would remember before they decide to read things like "The DaVinci Code," for example).

I never said I would hand-out the books to all the children and tell them "read this!"

I never said I support witchcraft.

Porn is also in fictional settings. So by your argument, there is nothing wrong with porn?

[Giaour]

However, there are a number of instances in the Bible where respected leaders were involved in divining the future, apparently without any condemnations by God. Some are:

bullet In Genesis 44:5, Joseph's household manager refers to a silver drinking cup "...in which my lord drinketh and whereby indeed he devineth". Later, Joseph accuses his brothers of stealing the cup, saying "that such a man as I can certainly divine [the identity of the thieves]". These passages show that Joseph engaged in scrying to foretell the future.

bullet The Urim and Thummim were two objects mentioned in Numbers 27:21 and 1 Samuel 28:6 of the Hebrew Scriptures. They were apparently devices (perhaps in the form of flat stones) that the high priest consulted to determine the will of God. They might have worked something like a pair of dice.

bullet The prophet Daniel was employed for many years in Babylon as the chief occultist to the king. He was supervisor "of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans and soothsayers". See Daniel 5:11.

There are many verses in the Bible that prohibit certain methods for foretelling the future by the ancient Israelites. These include Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 19:26-26; 19:31; 20:6; Deuteronomy 18:10-11; Isaiah 8:19 and Malachai 3:5. Of these, Deuteronomy 18 is perhaps the most important. They forbade the Israelites from engaging in eight specific practices. Various translations of the Bible use various ambiguous terms or phrases here: augur, black magic, calls up the dead, charmer, consults with spirits, divination, enchanter, fortune teller, interpret omens, look for omens, magician, medium, necromancer, observer of times, sorcerer, soothsayer, spiritist, weaves or casts spells, witchcraft, and wizard. The terms magician, sorcerer, spiritist, and witch have many different meanings.

Clearly, translators have had a great deal of difficulty selecting unique English words or short phrases to match the Hebrew text. Returning to the original words:

1. yid'oni Making contact with spirits who are not of God. Some Christians may suggest that this clause might forbid the New Age practice of channeling. However, New Agers themselves are generally convinced that the spirits with which they deal are from God.

2. sho'el 'ov Making contact with the dead. This would probably prohibit a medium from contacting the dead, as in Spiritualism.

3. qosem q'samim Foretelling the future by using lots. This would condemn casting runes, using the I Ching or a similar system.

4. m'onen Predicting the future by interpreting signs in nature. (e.g. predicting the harshness of a winter by looking at moss on trees, or fur thickness on animals in the wild, or whether the groundhog sees his shadow).

5. m'nachesh Enchanting (perhaps related to nachash, a snake; i.e. snake charming).

6. chover chavar Casting evil spells by magical knot tying.

7. m'khaseph evil sorcery; using spoken spells to harm other people.

8. doresh 'el hametim Literally "One who asks the dead", probably via another method than sho'el 'ov.

The Greek word in the Christian Scriptures that is translated Witch would be better translated as "one who concocts potions to kill people," or simply "poisoner."

wikipedia and religioustolerance sites

[Guest LadyC]

ok, you don't support it, or the books/movie, but you defend it.

for the record (now i'm getting personal), you're getting mad at emily for responding to me regarding those who are defending children seeing this movie (which includes you but is not limited to you) yet you had no problem referring to me as "honey" in a way which sure as heck wasn't meant as a term of endearment, and you haven't felt the least inclined to apologize for having offended me... but you are certainly offended by someone else's comment which was in direct response to what i said to her. wow.

anyway, back on topic, what matters, the ONLY thing that matters, is what God has to say. about sorcery, about idolatry, about what we fill our minds with, about taking our thoughts captive to Christ, about training up our children according to His ways, and about avoiding even the appearance of evil. how does this movie line up with those biblical principals?

[ted]

Ok, seriously, this thread has got to stop. We are getting way to out of hand over a book series. As far as I'm concerned. If your children can't distinguish between reality and fiction then DON'T TAKE THEM TO SEE THE MOVIES OR READ THE BOOKS. Thank you, (sorry for the use of caps, just trying to get everyone's attention) and please, no fighting over this. We are taking each other down more then actually arguing over this topic. If you guys are going to continue this thread then at least try to stop from verbally attacking other people.

Wise words, and from one of our newest members, too!

Let's take a break, ok?

t.