Women pastors

[Ovedya]

For me, when we have scripture saying, here are the requirements for a Bishop, Elder and Deacon, and these requirements are both consistent and repeated almost verbatim in two different books of the bible, I don

[OopsMartin]

No THAT ^^ is complicating.

Actually verse 13 is connected with authority and verse 14 is connected with teaching.

Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived. It's connected with teaching because the woman is the weaker vessel (1 Pet. 3:7)

So then, why can a woman not assert authority over a man? Because man was created first. (13)

And why can a woman not teach a man? Because the woman was greatly deceived. (14)

So, you are attempting to connect Peter's statement about the woman being a weaker vessel, e.g. weaker physically, with being weaker mentally.

hmmmm.

Are you also suggesting that because she was formed second, that is why she is supposedly weaker mentally?

[Ovedya]

No THAT ^^ is complicating.

Actually verse 13 is connected with authority and verse 14 is connected with teaching.

Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived. It's connected with teaching because the woman is the weaker vessel (1 Pet. 3:7)

So then, why can a woman not assert authority over a man? Because man was created first. (13)

And why can a woman not teach a man? Because the woman was greatly deceived. (14)

So, you are attempting to connect Peter's statement about the woman being a weaker vessel, e.g. weaker physically, with being weaker mentally.

Weaker in soul (mind, emotion and will), as the negative of "Sthenoo" implies.

hmmmm.

Are you also suggesting that because she was formed second, that is why she is supposedly weaker mentally?

Nope.

[Marnie]

Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived. It's connected with teaching because the woman is the weaker vessel (1 Pet. 3:7)

So then, why can a woman not assert authority over a man? Because man was created first. (13)

And why can a woman not teach a man? Because the woman was greatly deceived. (14)

Whoa. Elsewhere, it says sin entered the world through one man, Adam. While Eve may have been deceived, Adam gets the credit for opening the door to sin. Further, Eve was deceived but Adam transgressed willingly; he was obviously in close proximity to the conversation between Eve and the serpent.

Your reasoning on this borders on being boorish, even though I heartily agree with your conclusion, there should not be women pastors.

[OopsMartin]

Weaker in soul (mind, emotion and will), as the negative of "Sthenoo" implies.

Really! You really believe that women are weak willed, over emotional, simple minded inferior creatures???

[Ovedya]

Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived. It's connected with teaching because the woman is the weaker vessel (1 Pet. 3:7)

So then, why can a woman not assert authority over a man? Because man was created first. (13)

And why can a woman not teach a man? Because the woman was greatly deceived. (14)

Whoa. Elsewhere, it says sin entered the world through one man, Adam. While Eve may have been deceived, Adam gets the credit for opening the door to sin. Further, Eve was deceived but Adam transgressed willingly; he was obviously in close proximity to the conversation between Eve and the serpent.

Your reasoning on this borders on being boorish, even though I heartily agree with your conclusion, there should not be women pastors.

I think the evidence for Adam's presence with Eve and the serpent at the tree of knowledge is questionable. While I agree that Adam transgressed willingly, this doesn't have anything to do with why a woman is not permitted to have authority over a man.

[Marnie]

Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived. It's connected with teaching because the woman is the weaker vessel (1 Pet. 3:7)

So then, why can a woman not assert authority over a man? Because man was created first. (13)

And why can a woman not teach a man? Because the woman was greatly deceived. (14)

Whoa. Elsewhere, it says sin entered the world through one man, Adam. While Eve may have been deceived, Adam gets the credit for opening the door to sin. Further, Eve was deceived but Adam transgressed willingly; he was obviously in close proximity to the conversation between Eve and the serpent.

Your reasoning on this borders on being boorish, even though I heartily agree with your conclusion, there should not be women pastors.

I think the evidence for Adam's presence with Eve and the serpent at the tree of knowledge is questionable. While I agree that Adam transgressed willingly, this doesn't have anything to do with why a woman is not permitted to have authority over a man.

Since she handed the fruit off to Adam, we can reasonably conclude he was close to her.

I would say that there is a divine order to be maintained that has nothing to do with the order of creation or being deceived.

[Ovedya]

Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived. It's connected with teaching because the woman is the weaker vessel (1 Pet. 3:7)

So then, why can a woman not assert authority over a man? Because man was created first. (13)

And why can a woman not teach a man? Because the woman was greatly deceived. (14)

Whoa. Elsewhere, it says sin entered the world through one man, Adam. While Eve may have been deceived, Adam gets the credit for opening the door to sin. Further, Eve was deceived but Adam transgressed willingly; he was obviously in close proximity to the conversation between Eve and the serpent.

Your reasoning on this borders on being boorish, even though I heartily agree with your conclusion, there should not be women pastors.

I think the evidence for Adam's presence with Eve and the serpent at the tree of knowledge is questionable. While I agree that Adam transgressed willingly, this doesn't have anything to do with why a woman is not permitted to have authority over a man.

Since she handed the fruit off to Adam, we can reasonably conclude he was close to her.

I would say that there is a divine order to be maintained that has nothing to do with the order of creation or being deceived.

The order of creation is the reason that Paul gave: "For Adam was created first."

The account says that Eve gave the fruit to Adam but does not say that he was there. One would reasonably expect that if Adam was standing their listening to the conversation between Eve and the serpent that he would have said or done something about it. In fact, it's likely that the conversation between Eve and the serpent was without Adam's knowledge. He didn't mention being there when he accused the woman before God either. He simply said, "the woman which you gave to be with me gave to me and I ate."

[firehill]

No THAT ^^ is complicating.

Actually verse 13 is connected with authority and verse 14 is connected with teaching.

Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived. It's connected with teaching because the woman is the weaker vessel (1 Pet. 3:7)

So then, why can a woman not assert authority over a man? Because man was created first. (13)

And why can a woman not teach a man? Because the woman was greatly deceived. (14)

That's strange. Paul didn't connect 'weaker vessel' to Eve being deceived. He did not say, 'For Adam was formed first then Eve and Adam was not deceived but the woman having been deceived fell into sin FOR she was the weaker vessel.' See now you are taking one verse in a different book and trying to connect it here when the passage you refer to has nothing to do with Adam and Eve nor teaching and 'authority'.

Paul made one sweeping connection of not 'teaching and 'having authority over' TO the order of creation which is connected to who was and wasn't deceived. Paul did not connect the prohibtion in the way that you claim. Besides, Eve never taught Adam and neither did she exercise authority over him. Then too nor did Adam over Eve.

By tossing what Paul said which was, 'For Adam was formed first then Eve and Adam was not deceivied but the woman being deceived fell into transgression' and adding to his words, forcing other ideas unto the text, only then can one miss Paul's connection between who was and wasn't deceived and why and how that relates to v.12.

[Smalcald]

The thing is there seems to be two sources for the argument. One flows from the Old Testament and focuses on creation and ability differences, I don't find this relevant to who should be ordained in a Christian Church or not, which is really a very specific question dealing with how believers in Christ should organize themselves, this would seem to have not much to do with creation and men and women etc, but really is more of an administrative issue. The other source flows from specific guidance we are given in the New Testament about what is the best way to organize our congregations, and I think it is direct, simple and to the point.

For me, it has nothing to do with inherent abilities; I don't really see that in scripture. To say that it has to do with some male ability, would assume for example that a pastor has greater abilities than say someone with the gift of administrations or prophecy etc, and this is far from true. Authority in a Christian sense is not like worldly authority, it is service, the pastors serve the congregations, not vice versa or that is the way it should be.

One reason I really think we need to stick with males in this one role (beyond scripture), is the need for fathering; something which seems sorely lacking in our culture and is needed within our churches (that is not a biblical mandate, I just personally find it something which is needed and can be met by qualified called males as Bishops, elders and deacons).